Unbalanced classes

[doustin]

There are too many nosense posts here and i have already replied to all questions here, i see many trolling here. I just will say again the obvious, check OP battles and you will see what is there, almost all nukers and healers, so you can say whatever you want cause the facts are there. So keep trolling yourselves i wont participate anymore in the flame you try to make.

[totnkopf]

There are too many nosense posts here and i have already replied to all questions here, i see many trolling here. I just will say again the obvious, check OP battles and you will see what is there, almost all nukers and healers, so you can say whatever you want cause the facts are there. So keep trolling yourselves i wont participate anymore in the flame you try to make.

1 question... why post if you're not willing to listen to what people have to say?

I've been to many OP battles. I've seen a mix of mages/healers/melee. Yes, there are more nukers and healers. They do more damage over a wider area than a melee can (circle attack only goes so far). Is that to say melee is useless? no. Melee can be a real pain when they get in the healers and nukers. and there have been more and more melee involved in the battles since the HP boost to armor. There was barely anyone with a melee weapon in the old lands event, and those that did spent a lot of time in the dirt.

[iwojimmy]

There are too many nosense posts here and i have already replied to all questions here, i see many trolling here. I just will say again the obvious, check OP battles and you will see what is there, almost all nukers and healers, so you can say whatever you want cause the facts are there. So keep trolling yourselves i wont participate anymore in the flame you try to make.

thank you.


about every third post here is people saying Melee is good for surviving, either solo or in parties. Ele is constrained by the way actually using it cost so much anything that reaches you will kill you (equivalent levels). Healers are too important for a single skill tree - we need some diversity in healing abilities.

about every fourth post seems to be you saying that because most people in OP battles use magic, it invalidates the rest of the game....

[jawa00]

i got 2handed sword at level 190 and like melee more than magic. love the default attack and i can swing the camera around while fighting and watch the healers while as mage i have to constantly hit attack and when trying to look around the camera everytime swings back. when i want to level something else than melee and the group is gonna say, but who does tank then? makes me smile and i know melee is not that useless

what i dislike about melee is the small range of taunt, especially when trying to taunt a boss that is walking away from me. when using taunt the group doesn't see it, not like with ele that of course got an animation and sound, so my group often doesn't know if now i have taunted that doggie running up to me or if it has aggrod me and i might not have seen it. or with the example of the boss walking away from me, the group doesn't know that i'm trying to taunt it, belives i'm following it to a better place and follows me trustful but blind into an aggro spawn

i also got a hard time to keep the aggro of more than 1 mob on me. that doesn't make me a tank really. i'm not sure if it's because i'm using a 2h sword or i'm doing something wrong but when there are coming additional mobs they only stay a sec at me and then attack the eles and healers. circular attack doesn't help much as i most time can't reach or miss them.

i read here a lot like anti-magic shield would be the edge in a duel. but aswell mages can train for anti-melee shields. so what if i'm running up to a nuker, activating my anti magic shield, once i'm at the nuker he only has to activate his anti-melee shield. i had to use my shield earlier, so mine will be worn off faster, then the nuker is still protected but can attack me. imo an easy situation for a nuker

[iphdrunk]

check OP battles and you will see what is there, almost all nukers and healers, so you can say whatever you want cause the facts are there.

There is a simple explanation for this: the majority of the nukers are also decent healers, and while doing elemental, it is way easier to crossheal: no penalty, boosted spells, etc. Healing is key for sustainable battles and Many vs Many fights.

I think that this "crosshealing" capacity of what one can call "elementalist" is to some extent, unrelated to the balance elemental-fighter that you stated, at least considered as isolated characters, eg. in PvP duels as you can read from players who do 1vs1 PvP.

Imagine for a moment that an elemental had the same limitations to "keep the healer stats up" as a melee fighter. Not boosted heals, increased time, etc. that he had to perform a "mystic" preparation to change from one aspect of magic to another, or in a classful system he could not heal. Things would be different

[vguerin]

There are too many nosense posts here and i have already replied to all questions here, i see many trolling here. I just will say again the obvious, check OP battles and you will see what is there, almost all nukers and healers, so you can say whatever you want cause the facts are there. So keep trolling yourselves i wont participate anymore in the flame you try to make.

Being proven wrong by some of the greatest fighters on Atys does not make them trollers. Even some of the best nukers chimed in about it, maybe your looking at it wrong.

There are no classes per se., just skills and the advantages that each one brings. The only nukers worth their salt are the ones with a high level melee skill as well. So these are not true mages as true mages are limited to low HP. There are multiclass folks aplenty though.

If your only basis for this discrepancy you find is OP battles, your not seeing the forest for the trees. It's about distance offset more than anything else... The healers to protect themselves stay centralised... I can name a dozen homins from several guilds who reak major havoc in every OP battle with melee. The smell of caster blood on our weapons, armor and faces causes us to go into a frenzy that often brings us out of heal range... Thats the nature of the battle... our bloodlust prevents the melee folks from changing how most OP battles go down...

... If our healers are in the back ranks of our line, and we are attacking the healers on the enemy backline... we have exceeded our coverage quite a bit. It's easier for us to don mage amps and LA and stand back a bit than to go into the hornets nest.

OP battles are no judge of skills, they only point to folks taking the easier path to fun. You're still going to see them same dozen homins yelling "Geronimo" and rushing headlong into the enemy fortifications to lay the smackdown. Only good healing saves those in a meleer's path, and we ALL fear them fighter rushes... watch the attention a single fighter gets when he gets into the enemies innards...

[boinged]

OOC:
This is what I've noticed about outpost battles:

Team 1 vs Team 2

H = healer
N = nuker

50m 0-50m 50m
H1------N1-----N2-----H2

Team 2's melee should go and kill H1 but they need to stay in a 50m range of H2 (and vice-versa), not possible. N2 could switch roles to healers if the N1-N2 distance was 0m but both of these requirements aren't going to happen. I think the only chance for a melee rush on H1 is just that - lots of melee attacking and hoping they wipe the healers, H1, in time for N2 to wipe N1 (supported by their living healers H2). Otherwise why not just add those melee to the healer/nuker pool and leave it down to sheer numbers+/-human efficiency. It's basically a range problem and everyone knows some kind of range pwns in every MMO.

Other issues raised: 1v1 - the nuker can run away when things don't go his way. An enchant on your weapon can help (and this is where levelling magic can help with enough sap to support the enchantment). But enchants can be resisted and I think you stop running when casting it so maybe this will help, maybe it won't. Enchant a root/stun/nuke - it's a bit random and probably fair although you're not really melee'ing anymore at this stage are you I guess bleed helps though.

2v1 or whatever is different 'cause one melee can stun while the other closes in for the kill. I've chased enough mages around while I wave my pike/axe at thin air for this to be annoying though so pm me if you have any advice

Having uber jewelry - my excellent universal resist set was a pain to figure out how to make from harvested mats and still doesn't give a great deal of protection, something like 30% across the board. What's sup - 40% max? Using a targetted resist set would be better but it's a lot easier to change spells than it is to re-equip a different set of 10 jewelry pieces.

I have argued in the past though why 1.3k axe damage to a mage's head is better than 1.8k absorbed magic damage.

So the ele advantage is a combo of: range, easy escape, flexibility.

I can see where Doustin's frustration comes from (a closet elementalist I'll bet ) but I don't see how it can be fixed in a group pvp situation? I'd like to say "if you can't beat them..." but it's never as satisfying zapping someone from afar as it is bonking them on the head until they fall down.

[kuroari]

but it's never as satisfying zapping someone from afar as it is bonking them on the head until they fall down.

Bah wasnt gonna read 8 pages of stuff - but i'm a lvl 140ish healer and a lvl 115 melee. i LOVE my melee - i use it way more than ele (was at lvl 45 until a month ago.. now im 72) cause i feel so much more in control when using melee - i can take hits.. and LOTS of them - unlike in LA.

plus my high heal helps me to dodge attacks against mobs for my 115 melee. Bieng a healer - i've worked with lots of different teams and i can tell you its a HUGE relief when we suddenly have a tank with us. the tank may not hit as hard as the elementalist - but it makes the team SOOO much easier.

i have about 1200 hp BASE. about 1900 in LA, and well over3k in good HA. now you tell me - wat would you rather run into an axe with? 1.9k hp of LOW PROTECTIOn LA, or over 3k of HIGH protection HA that reduces the hits by sometimes half or more?

with a set of true Melee Equipment - i can take out any Nuker my level - and as for cost - well if your guildmates are charging you for your equipment - then my advice - find a new guild. i've never had to pay for my stuff, and even if i did, i know i can make the money easy - so rather than complain, work around it. a TRUE melee-er can really do some heavy damage as they last MUCH longer than a nuker.

having trouble with nukers running away? well maybe you should try using Medium Armor and enchanting a nice strong stun or root spell on your weapon then you can watch em scream as you chase em down

-if anyone was trolling in this post, it was the creator - please dont make threads then refuse to listen to other peoples ideas - if your making the post to whine, do it on a private forum please

(my attitude/ideas do not reflect those of my guild, and everything i said was meant to be helpful, if you take it the wrong way, then i'm sorry, but thats your loss)

[mehanson]

the point is that healers and nukers dont need tanks for bosses and they even dont want them. I have been warned by different ppl different times not to use my warrior skill.

Bodoc Droppings! Unless you have a LOT of nukers, that boss gets to the nuker and kills him before the nuker can drop the boss. Seen it happen frequently at all levels. Nukers I've met and worked with want tanks to keep the bosses off them so they have enough time to bring the bug down without getting killed themselves.

As a wandering homin, I've been called on more than once to rez an all mage team because the baddies got to the nuker(s) and the healers couldn't keep them alive. In the end all got killed (party wipe), and needed an outsider to rez the party.
On the flip side, seen the same thing with all melee teams, or melee/healer teams using a lower level healer (or not enough healers). Best strategy I've seen ANYWHERE involves 4 types of players, melees to tank, nukers to deal heavy damage from afar, afflictionists to keep baddies in place (or away from nukers/healers), and healers. Pretty much works everytime as long as the team doesn't get over-eager and go after something much too high a level.

[dakhound]

There are too many nosense posts here and i have already replied to all questions here, i see many trolling here. I just will say again the obvious, check OP battles and you will see what is there, almost all nukers and healers, so you can say whatever you want cause the facts are there. So keep trolling yourselves i wont participate anymore in the flame you try to make.

thinks doustin does not fully understand, all I see is some of the best fighters on the server trying to convince him and he seems intent on trying to prove them wrong.

doustin, get yer light armour on and go try kye out in a duel, go find yourself a knifeman and try yourself against him/her, try killing jugukoo without a tank then tell me melee are useless, in fact screw jugukoo go try tanking tyrankoo in light armour, thats fun

go hunt great kincher in LA (I know theres some people stupid enough)

there are mobs designed for a nuker/healer team on atys i.e jugs, najabs

try sneaking WL's in light armour and then try it in heavy, I assure you doing it in heavy is alot easier, especially with the nice 6k hp.

your making the mistake of looking at damage and writing off the lower one, my view on this is a caster cant cast with an axe buried in his face