Ryzom

melee + healer works fine at ~lvl 100 and below and due to the juwel chnages plants have become more attractive, *WAY* more attractive as leveling targets, which is especially true for low levels.

xenofur wrote:listen to the community, hm? well, let me make my own forg... uh, interpretation of the polls. i'll use the german, french and english polls:
48.88% like the heal rebalancing
31.36% think changes would be nice
14.87% are against the heal rebalancing
4.89% need more beer
of course these numbers are missing those who actually played a while to find out how the patch plays and changed their minds as well as the thousands who left because their powers were so cruelly stripped of them, so their mage couldn't tank anymore
p.s.: this post is in no way ironic and biased and is not following any agenda of my own

Two things you seem to be missing;

1)So far, only boinged has claimed he will quit if heals are re-adjusted for mob strength, and, while it is possible that some may proclaim that they will in reaction to my post(s) it is unlikely, as opposed to the many who really will quit if they are not restored, and, indeed, already have.

2) Though it may change, the initial respondants to this poll were the avid supporters, who did not give it time for testing, but voted according to their predjudice. The ones who have given it time for testing seem, at least for now, not to like it at all, as indicated by the percentage in favor of the heal nerf dropping every day.

thebax wrote:if heals are re-adjusted for mob strength

you are saying that as if there would really be a need for this. if so, please tell me with exact numbers and data, in which circumstances it would be necessary.

thebax wrote:2) Though it may change, the initial respondants to this poll were the avid supporters, who did not give it time for testing, but voted according to their predjudice. The ones who have given it time for testing seem, at least for now, not to like it at all, as indicated by the percentage in favor of the heal nerf dropping every day.

quite seriously, i can't argue much with that, but please tell me which percentages did rise.

IMHO i like the new upgrades to the sap heal stam i dont really use much but since i heal mostly 220-250 mages in full partys i dont need much in stam.. a little tweeking to the spell credits and im good to go ...and to the battery comment i fully disagree ..i have never worked harder at a skill then i do healing.. melee is easy click target and skill auto-repeats, ele takes more work but the hard part is staying up.

Ravens 203 healer
126 melee
168 ele

xenofur wrote:you are saying that as if there would really be a need for this. if so, please tell me with exact numbers and data, in which circumstances it would be necessary.

The base heal needs to be equal to or greater than max mob damage. I am not talking about plants, as they seldom agro on harvesters, travelers, or attack parties hunting timmies. Nor do I mean named/bosses, those should be a challenge where death is possible/likely, worthy of boasting about your success.
This trend of requiring larger and larger groups to accomplish the same painfully slow grind is idiocy, we simply don't have the numbers for it. One healer per one or two others in the group, all within a few levels of each-other was doable. For those who have a support group of people willing to sacrifice their own advancement by using lower skills, it still is. For the multitude who are quitting, or have quit already, it is not.

xenofur wrote:quite seriously, i can't argue much with that, but please tell me which percentages did rise.

The single one which seems to have risen most is the one (on our poll, at least) which requests heal life be raised, while leaving the new sap/stam heals at their current level. However, all of the percentages for the ones requesting higher heal life power have gone up.

thebax wrote:The base heal needs to be equal to or greater than max mob damage.

this is where we seperate already. in my opinion the base heal should match the highest mob damage that can be inflicted on a melee in full heavy armour(npc-type), since i think the concept of a tanking mage is ridiculous at best.

thebax wrote:The single one which seems to have risen most is the one (on our poll, at least) which requests heal life be raised, while leaving the new sap/stam heals at their current level. However, all of the percentages for the ones requesting higher heal life power have gone up.

as far as i am concerned that means the number of supporters of the patch is rising then. those who vote for a simple increase of heal hp aren't against the patch, but wouldn't mind a boost either, in my opinion.

thebax wrote:The base heal needs to be equal to or greater than max mob damage.

base heal as w/o amps ?
i think it's just fine atm. at lvl 165+ heal (heal 15 is 588 HP) is around 1k (single heal, standard heal amp). at 165 i should probably hunt q200-q230 mobs (with group in mind)
Horrific Tyrancha is q230, hits around 800 damage (armor will absorb a lot of that)
Great Zerx 876/1762, q230 again
(hehe, i hope my numbers are correct)

i see no problem in heal power. group lvl balance (tankl vs healer lvl) is more important now)
for named and bosses you should need a few (high lvl) healers anyway.

xenofur wrote:since i think the concept of a tanking mage is ridiculous at best.

Wont find me disagreeing with that. I don't think mages SHOULD tank. Doesn't mean I agree with the changes though. Just means I prefer to play the game with a melee as tank. Always have.

xenofur wrote:as far as i am concerned that means the number of supporters of the patch is rising then. those who vote for a simple increase of heal hp aren't against the patch, but wouldn't mind a boost either, in my opinion.

You should be a politician! Interesting way to spin it.

I would argue that the detractors are growing. People may support the majority of the patch but (according to thebax's figures) the number voting AGAINST the heal CHANGE is growing. More people are voting to CHANGE the heal again, not voting FOR the patch.

Personally I voted against the change to heal, because I always HAVE. I never supported this change, never will. I will, however, work with it. Last night was the first chance I got to heal since patch day (partly through lack of enthusiasm). It was harder to heal and to lvl BUT it wasn't unworkable. I can live with it just as I lived with the changes in the now infamous patch 1.

Doesn't mean I support them. I never saw the point in them, never will.

philu wrote:Wont find me disagreeing with that. I don't think mages SHOULD tank. Doesn't mean I agree with the changes though. Just means I prefer to play the game with a melee as tank. Always have.

question: if a healer is able to keep a mage up, which means the mage can effectively tank, what reason for existing has a melee?

philu wrote:You should be a politician! Interesting way to spin it.

ok, i admit it, i cheated a bit there
on the german forums we have a VERY similar poll, which looks almost exactly the same as this one, with one key difference: the second option isn't "up heal to sap/stam-levels", it's "up heal by 10%", something which wouldn't really change much aside from being a token to those complaining. thus the views and opinions that i voiced above.

xenofur wrote:this is where we seperate already. in my opinion the base heal should match the highest mob damage that can be inflicted on a melee in full heavy armour(npc-type), since i think the concept of a tanking mage is ridiculous at best.

Blame it on magic, heh. It doesn't much matter whether it makes sense for a team of two or three, regardless of the components of that team, to be repeatedly taking down mobs. That is what we have the numbers for. We simply do not have the number of people necessary for everyone to have a good time under the current heal power. Of course, if they balanced the mobs with players as they should have over a year ago, this would be a moot point.

xenofur wrote:As far as i am concerned that means the number of supporters of the patch is rising then. those who vote for a simple increase of heal hp aren't against the patch, but wouldn't mind a boost either, in my opinion.

Lol, that's what is referred to as "bass-ackwards"

No one is arguing against a boost to the Stam/sap heals, those have been wayyyyyy to weak for as long as I've been playing (since I could get Ryzom in NA) , although, I do think they went a bit too far with boosting them.

Double heal power doesn't matter, double sap, double stam power, also doesn't matter.

A ratio that works with the number of available players at a given level range, is that a single healer should be able to keep two others at full strength by casting heal+sap or heal+stam combos. That, we have the number of players for. the longer they ignore us, and ignore the problem, the fewer players there are.