Ryzom

One random thought to improve melee experience would be to allow both dodge and parry at same time. Currently, hit rates are not too realistic as both sides are dishing out their max damage with most of their strikes. Combinations of partial dodges and parrys would make more variation to inflicted damage and every hit would not just go beyond max armor absorption.

Also, critical hits should give some additional damage.

EDIT: That was meant as easy and fast to impelement changes. In longer term I would like to see everything proposed by kashius and some others.

pr0ger wrote:on-topic :
i'm against balancing SOLO VS MOB . darn, go play kotor or dungeon siege if you want to solo. We're not a "great community" because we go alone nuking jugula in highgrove....

MMO this, MMO that..
btw, i can solo forage and crafting. i think they need to change it so that you need at least 9 ppl in team to be able to level in those 2 areas.

solo should not be impossible or really-really-really slow.
teaming should give you faster xp over time but not the only way to level combat.

nobody likes forced grouping.

xenofur wrote:b00ster1, you forgot a little tidbit: shields
currently they give you a defense+ of ~20%-25% and this is for ALL body parts, not too sure about the max vs. values tho (oh, and don't forget the rather high parry bonus )

xenofur wrote:in your example the melee would have a dmg absorption of 100% (75%+25%) which would probably be capped at 95% and a raw absorb of 1100(900+200). since the % limit woudl be lower than the max vs. the damage that the melee would have to take would be 5% of 1141, which is is 57.55. that means that the melee doesn't need to burn himself out on stam and can take his time.

Shields don't work that way I'm afraid.
Firstly, it's true that they work for all bodyparts, but the payoff is that they don't always work. As far as I can tell there's a probability that depends on level difference: when fighting mobs below my level the shield will almost always 'work' (absorb adittional damage on top of what the heavy armor absorbs), but when fighting mobs above my level I frequently get no protection from my shield at all.
Secondly, if your heavy armor takes off 50% and your shield 20%, that doesn't mean using them both takes off 70% so that you only take 30%. It means the shield takes off 20% first, and the heavy armor then takes 50% off the remaining 80%, so that you take 40%, meaning the shield and heavy armor combined take off 60% of the damage.

Anyways, about the changes, I take back my previous comment:

sidusar wrote:If light armor is going to be 5%-25%, then medium armor should be at least 30%-50% and heavy 55%-75%. If that's too high, I propose light armor be 5%-20%, medium 25%-40% and heavy 45%-60%.

On second thought I believe that the current values of 5%-15% for light and 45%-55% for heavy are fine (thought medium needs to be changed from 20%-30% to 25%-35%). It's the max. vs values that need to be improved. Increase them all by about 35% compared to their current values and I'll be happy

thebax wrote:It would be much better if the melee folk stopped complaining about mages having "too much power", and shifted their focus to fighters having too little.

I'm fine with that

thebax wrote:Equal level should mean equal power, whether you are fighter, mage, or mob.

That I don't agree with, as it would mean every creauture on Atys would be equally powerfull. In my opinion, for any given level in any given skill, there should be:
- Training mobs: You should be able to kill specimens of these mobs that are 30 levels above you easily, so you can get 3k from soloing them. Plants, gentle herbivores and scavengers would be likely canditates for this role.
- Challenging mobs: You should be about an even match for a specimen of these mobs if it is equal level to you. Predators and tougher herbivores could fill this role.
- "Stay away from these" mobs: A specimen of these mobs could still kill you easily even if you are 30 levels above it. Kitin soldiers and prime root predators come to mind here.

thebax wrote:I am just tired of melees whining about mages being too powerful and wanting them to be nerfed, rather than asking for their own abilities to be enhanced.

You know, i'm AoD, and i agree - Offencive magic is way to powerfull now, not melee too weak (Armours need improvement, not damage).
I agree with 99% of boosters' posting, and just note: He's not whining melee, he was first AoD at shard, and afaik he's CG.

thebax wrote:Never said they couldn't cast without sap.

You did.

thebax wrote: But their casting is severly hampered if they only use range/time credits, to the point where it is fairly useless

Single missile without range and without timecredits, hitting for more damage than fighter using all max stanzas - it's not useless, dont you think?

thebax wrote: There is no logical reason why any Homin combatant should not be able to prevail against any mob of an equal level, so long as their equipment is choice or better.

I don't think there is any logical reason that mob levels need even be related to homin levels (or at least shown to the player). Could one play if they labeled the mob levels by A, B, C, etc? One certainly could, it just matters how the game is designed, whether one can succeed and advance with challenge and enjoyment.

And personally, I think you should give the poor mobs a break. I have yet to catch any creature or NPC that I have been whacking on, using a self-heal, a protection aura, a speed stanza to run away, or invulnerability. Once the jugulas start using invulnerability and speeding back to their herd, then we will have a big problem!

Healing

Healer in team, what is fighting with one enemy (mob), isn't much difficult. Redusing healing will make this more difficult. Mobs just hit so hard. When team get more than one enemies, then starts healers problems. Keeping everyone they health, is very difficult for more than short time. Reduced healing, will cause full wipes for teams.

So basicly reduced healing will fix over healing in higher level, but also make game a lot harder in lower and middle levels. Is this really wanted or needed?

Why we need reduce lower lever healing possibilities. Are they over powered?

Elementists

Yes, elementists damage is high, but it's not really the problem here. If You compare fighters and elements damage, there is major different. But real problem is how long the fight last. Because enemies does so much damage, it's huge benefit to be able defeat enemies as fast as possible. Longer the fight last, more damage the enemies does. I think, this same does happen in PvP, if the other does not resist (protection) to elementists powers.

So adding magic resist would solve PvP stuff. Making sap/health cost higher will just end fight short as the elementalists lose the fight because can't do anyting anymore than die. (Both PvP and PvE).

Armours

Armours seem to have less affects than levels and heals. I usually are naked, because armour doesn't really do anyting. You would need really good heavy armour even notice the effect. Some may say there is different as reduced damage. But it does not really matter as fights last so long that fighter is dead multible times without healers. Currently healers are the ones who keeps fighters and others alive, not armours.

If dev team gonna make healing reduced, they better increase armours / dodge / parry / resist. Other ways they gonna see mass dp's and You all can quest what that means.

sofiaoak wrote:Healing

Healer in team, what is fighting with one enemy (mob), isn't much difficult. Redusing healing will make this more difficult. Mobs just hit so hard. When team get more than one enemies, then starts healers problems. Keeping everyone they health, is very difficult for more than short time. Reduced healing, will cause full wipes for teams.

So basicly reduced healing will fix over healing in higher level, but also make game a lot harder in lower and middle levels. Is this really wanted or needed?

Why we need reduce lower lever healing possibilities. Are they over powered?

I agree with this sentiment that many people have expressed that reducing high level healing is a good idea but a flat cut at all levels will likely make the lower levels too difficult. I doubt that the increased resists and improved armors will offset a flat healing cut. A graduated cut would be a better idea, perhaps a linear progression; healing cut in half at lvl 250, but only cut by one quarter at lvl 125, etc.

26101987 wrote:

thebax wrote:Never said they couldn't cast without sap.

You did.

After a nights sleep, I realize that I did, and I appologize for that mis-statement, it was not what I meant.

26101987 wrote:Single missile without range and without timecredits, hitting for more damage than fighter using all max stanzas - it's not useless, dont you think?

One of the many things that looks good on paper, but does not work in practice. I lack omniscience, but I have yet to see an elementalist past 150 use this setup, certainly not one for whom elementalism is their highest magic skill, probably because the time credit reduces the damage per minute well below melee's output, and getting as close as they must, they will draw attention from their tank, and force the healer to split their attention, which commonly results in death.

OOC:

IMO problem is not only to big elemental damage - but spells casts almost without
interruptions when melee/mob hitting mages.

75% (3 from 4) casts interruption "if mage got hit" solve:
1. Mages - can not tank and then team need melee
Atm tank is useful only killing lvl 270 bosses in team from 3-4 players.
2. Concentrate stanza (atm don't used) - would be used for "mage-tank", and this would decrease damage at least for 30% for "mage-tank", allowing "only mage" (not tank) to hit full damage.
3. Mage will kill fighter from distance, but not in "cc"

Currently most effective combination for usual hunt is elem + healer... Spell interruption = "+concentrate" = less dmg = place for tank/2nd nuker in team.
I find this illogically, mage with 2600 hp, tanking and killing at same time GREAT VORAX, and healer lvl ~200 almost easy fill hp+sap bar in one cast, or rezz with full health.

PS. I dont want additional troubles, i just want to "find place" for each class in team.. I mean useful teamm8, not "xp leecher".
Also - longer fight with less powerful healer = place for Afflictionist?

Mage and fighters, both can't tank without healer. Healer is the key for tanking, not the damage what elementist does or fighters armours. Fighters armour just give healer longer time table for healing. Elementalist just shorten the fight with high damage, but if in tank position, they require a lot of healing.

Also mage miss a lot of they spells. Just because spell isn't interupted, does not mean it's a hit. I'm not trying to defend mage in all cost, but there isn't so much wrong on them as many thinks.

I play fighter and mage and they both have good points and bad ones. Mages just are better, because Ryzoms armours are so bad for fighters and mobs does so high damage. So killing enemies before they are in close combat is huge advance. Untill we fighters get real armour and don't have to use these paper armours, notting has changed.