Ryzom

I wouldn't mind the OPEN pvp...WITH the option to OPT OUT. I am an explorer/social type, I chat and dig *shows two muddy/sandy hands* told ya. *opens pack and dumps it out, accidentally killing four Yubos and a Bodoc or two* See, I craft too, mostly out of desire to empty pack and to gain cash.

ALL of my melee came from either defending myself during foraging OR leveling in a group just before patch one. I am NOT a killer, and killer types don't tend to get along with social/explorer types.

I do NOT want to fight another player, if/when I do...I will join a brawl in the arenas.

Ok...here is an idea. OPEN pvp, with consequences (fame hits with EACH kill, ONLY negative, NO positive, so you can't go kill a few thousand trykers to max out kami fame or something) with a PVP ON switch or OFF switch, defaulted to OFF.

This system was used in "The Realm" online, worked great, they had ABOUT as many levels to start off with as we do, and turning PVP on before level 100 was almost INSTANT suicide. Those that WANTED PVP got it, flip the switch and BINGO, I think the wait on reswitching it was ONE week...online OR offline.

Actually PvP in the prime roots does make a bit of sense from a strictly programming standpoint.

First off, look at the populance of the game, mainly only the high level players go to PR to do what ever they are there for.

Materials, well, that is where the best materials in the game can be found, so make the players fight over the materials.

However, there is a bigger picture (yes I had an apifamy, however its spelled), that we have all over looked.

Currently, the mats are very abundent, making it easy for tons of harvestors to get them and tons of crafters to craft very killer armor / weapons with them, all from the PR area.

What I am trying to say is, logically, the PR change would not only be increased danger, but decreased materials sources, think of it as kind of a 'king of the mountain' effect.

First, you deal with having to GET to a PR enterance, once there, you have to get past the guardians, ok if this wasn't bad enough, you have to get to your normal harvest spot. (or in a possible instance, any spot in general once they reduce the diameter of the spots)

Now that your there, it will probably mean that you can only find, say, 50 mats in that spot for an hour.

Choke hold time, guilds want these materials for there own purposes, so they come in and fight over what little harvest spots remain.

The system, as developed from what I can tell, has 'seed' (not material seeds) spots with fixed radius's, these seed spots have a number that associates with what can be found in the given radius, and amount of materials per area.

Now, up until now the developres have been very gracious and made the materials abundent.

With a change in the PR to add PvP, they also have to give a REASON for the players to fight over materials.

Basic Supply and Demand theory.

If you kill the supply and reduce number of seed spots, reduce radius of existing seed spots, decrease number of materials found in each seeded area, you are now concentrating the players and there harvestable areas.

Since this same seeded approach works with npc's or animals per say, they can overlap the animals with the seeded location of the materials, making it so that you HAVE to have a full group of decent leveled players just to get to the spot, and keep it clean of animals that will kill you.

Add to that the fact you have to fight over it from your fellow harvesting guilds.

Its another attempt at balancing the system, the devs are dubed "Neo"

zumwalt wrote:First off, look at the populance of the game, mainly only the high level players go to PR to do what ever they are there for.

Ummm, I know level 60s-70s harvesting down there. With the advent of the world trips, alot of people been comin through ToT.

Materials, well, that is where the best materials in the game can be found, so make the players fight over the materials.

These same materials can be found in other zones (yes, and I do mean finding supreme mats in other zones).

What I am trying to say is, logically, the PR change would not only be increased danger, but decreased materials sources, think of it as kind of a 'king of the mountain' effect.

Decreasing mat sources, while it would increase player fighting, would do alot more harm than good. Most(if not all) prospectable resources in the prime roots, are in one of 4 states:Choice, Excellent, Supreme, empty. These are affected by seasons and weather. So now adding in the fact that people would now have to work even harder, to get a harvest spot, that chances are is going to be choice (or excellent if you are lucky). Now if you can just get choice from your own backyard with no pvp risk, why bother? Especially when it would be in lower supply.

First, you deal with having to GET to a PR enterance, once there, you have to get past the guardians, ok if this wasn't bad enough, you have to get to your normal harvest spot. (or in a possible instance, any spot in general once they reduce the diameter of the spots)

Once you get in the PR and get a ticket, unless you forget to get a new ticket (and you don't have a different ticket to the same area) you will never have to deal with those entrance kitin, or even getting to the prime roots to begin with.

Now that your there, it will probably mean that you can only find, say, 50 mats in that spot for an hour.

Choke hold time, guilds want these materials for there own purposes, so they come in and fight over what little harvest spots remain.

A guild would have to camp in the upwards of 3 hours to make 1 suit of heavy armor (baring degrades). That's not counting contention from other guilds. That's just of that 50 mats in an hour. Try outfitting a guild at that rate, when chances are, most the mats you will get are just choice. Guild camping, I don't think anyone would enjoy seeing this.

It would also detract anyone from going there except guilds. Making the prime roots even less populous than it is now.

Not to mention....How would you like to try and level prime roots forage at only 50 mats per hour? Now limit the amount of people who can do this at the same time? Pfft, sorry, getting a skill from 51-250 at that rate is just wrong. Not to mention everyone who hasn't maxxed their PR forage will cry foul, 'exploit early and exploit often', and 'nevrax nerfed foraging again'. Yea, we don't need to see that crap again.

The system, as developed from what I can tell, has 'seed' (not material seeds) spots with fixed radius's, these seed spots have a number that associates with what can be found in the given radius, and amount of materials per area.

Now, up until now the developres have been very gracious and made the materials abundent.

With a change in the PR to add PvP, they also have to give a REASON for the players to fight over materials.

Basic Supply and Demand theory.

If you kill the supply and reduce number of seed spots, reduce radius of existing seed spots, decrease number of materials found in each seeded area, you are now concentrating the players and there harvestable areas.

To quote cerest's post on pvp:

Later on, guilds will be able to declare war and take control of areas within the Prime Roots using specific advantages.

taken from http://ryzom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7217 which has info on pvp.

I'm not trying to flame you on this, just changing up forage there is not the way to go.

Remember, even outside the rule set (which is indicating otherwise), PR is being designed as team/guild pvp. Not just free-for-all pvp. (Which if they just kept it to be team/guild pvp, I wouldn't mind).

Me and some guild members were on the ATS last night.... let the spawn camping begin.

Zzei, you know I think you rock as a player, so please that that into consideration as you read this next post by me.

By DESIGN the prime roots is just that PRIME, meaning that it was never intended for a level 60 person to be in there harvesting to begin with.

Its supposed to be a 200+ level area.

People are spoiled by the fact that at level 40, they can follow a group of level 100+ into the prime roots, deal them getting to the ticket vendor, buy a ticket and spend the rest of there days there.

Black and White mats can ONLY be found in the Prime Roots.

The 'Idea' behind the prime roots is that, that is where the Kitin came from, that is THERE home, so, NO a level 70 should not be allowed to go uncontested in the Prime Roots.

The concept of the game is stages, and the levels of the creatures in each zone represent the stages of character progression.

People are spoiled at the moment because they have gotten that ride into the PR past the guardians, and been able to harvest killer materials for awesome PR harvesting skills.

This was never intended to be this way.

The game was supposed to have a gradual progression to it, meaning that since Q100 mats can be found in Fleeting Gardans, you would need to be like level 60?? or something like that to get that level of mats, prime roots you can get up to q250 (from what I recall)

So technically, although its a NICETY to have the ability to get those materials, you as a player haven't earned the levels to be in there (neither have I)

Over the next few months, EXPECT huge changes from zone to zone that will balance the system to where it is supposed to be.

Like I said, ALL OF US are spoiled at the moment, and will grumble over the change, but the change is to balance out the game to where it is supposed to be.

At level 78 harvest, I can't get Q100 mats pulled (don't think I get that until 80), I can pull Q90 max, so that means, that Fleeting Gardans is where I am technically SUPPOSED to be harvesting, but I have access to Prime Roots Q250 materials.

As a level 58 crafter in heavy armor, I can do Q60 crafting, do you think I need q250 harvested mats for my q60 armor that can't take advantage of q250 supreme materials?

The developers are now starting to balance out what is a currently unbalance system.

So uh, okay then, I want to go to the secondary or tertiary roots to harvest!

zumwalt wrote:Its supposed to be a 200+ level area.

Windy Gate, Underspring(I think), Gates of Obscurity all house mobs that are around lvl 100-150. And only have q150 mats to be harvested.

Trench of Trials, Elusive forest, and the Abyss of Ichor have mobs lvl 150-200, with q200 mats in them.

Lands of Continuity, Sunken City, and Forbidden depths have mobs lvl 200-250, with q250 mats in them.

So no, I don't think it's supposed to all be a 200+ level area.

People are spoiled by the fact that at level 40, they can follow a group of level 100+ into the prime roots, deal them getting to the ticket vendor, buy a ticket and spend the rest of there days there.

To an extent this is true, but these trips are also necessary to allow for ease of transportation later on during kitin invasions.

Black and White mats can ONLY be found in the Prime Roots.

Just because it's black or white, doesn't mean its better. Choice lakeland big shell will have the same stats as choice prime root big shell which will have the same stats as choice forest big shell, etc. Same goes for excellent and supreme.

At level 78 harvest, I can't get Q100 mats pulled (don't think I get that until 80), I can pull Q90 max, so that means, that Fleeting Gardans is where I am technically SUPPOSED to be harvesting, but I have access to Prime Roots Q250 materials.

As a level 58 crafter in heavy armor, I can do Q60 crafting, do you think I need q250 harvested mats for my q60 armor that can't take advantage of q250 supreme materials?

First off....Your prime roots forage skill starts at 51 once you get through 50 forage. Then, you have to level it just like your other forages. Sure you may have the ability to try and pull a higher quality, but you will get alot of spoils and failed catches, resulting in hardly ever pulling out the appropriate Q mat.

second off, with the above listed level ranges for the various regions in prime root, how would you say one should level a 51 skill? having a lvl 250 in lakeland/forest/jungle/desert and a lvl 51 in prime roots will result in you having problems trying to pull q70 out of prime roots.

(aggressive q100 is learned at 85, gentle q100 at 90, by using a q within 10 of the level you are using, you will not get spoils/failed catches).

If you are only 78 in a skill, pulling q90 from a q100 source or a q250 source, you still only get a q90. Just because the source says up to q250 is available, doesn't mean you can pull it if you don't have the skill.

Just trying to clear up some misconceptions it appears you are having here.

Heh, nope, no misconceptions here.
What I am trying to point out is this, Prime Roots materials are global usage, like fine and basic, any Prime Roots level of material can be used to craft any item.

This is why its so special.
I know about the max I can havest vs the max the pull could be, I can get up to Q90, the spot can give up to Q250 if I had the skill.

Regardless, the PR mats are special, you can't use a choice lake mat to craft ANYTHING other than Tryker items.

You CAN use PR mats to craft ANY race specific item.

Theres the real difference.

zumwalt wrote:This is why its so special.
I know about the max I can havest vs the max the pull could be, I can get up to Q90, the spot can give up to Q250 if I had the skill.

Regardless, the PR mats are special, you can't use a choice lake mat to craft ANYTHING other than Tryker items.

You CAN use PR mats to craft ANY race specific item.

Theres the real difference.

Honestly, That only does someone good if they craft multiple 'civilization' armor. For those that only make 1 style of gear, then pr = Xxxxx mat.

I'd call them special because they are @$%@ing easier to forage than my own god @$%@ mats in lakeland. But that's me. (Yes, I know what's on test, a little #$%king lat at this point imo).

Sorry, getting into q100/q150/q200 mats in lakeland is harder than getting into PR, and it bugs the friggin heck out of me still, since it is just now fixed on ATS and STILL not live yet.

I don't think, since something is a 'universal' mat for different civs, that they should drop its availability to that of Supreme Kitin Larva. That's rare for a reason, it's a super-wondermat. People can PK over that all day if they like, thats fine. It's rare, it's good, its RED.

I'm not saying no to pvp, I'm just voicing my doubts about some suggestions on its implimentation.

These are the balancing issues I was speaking about.
I personally can see this changing before february.

My take on it, is that I am treating it now like the PR is already PVP and the mats are rare, so I spend the 10k to port from civ to civ getting what specific items I need.

Being one of those multi-racial crafters, I would love to live in the roots, but I know for a most certain FACT this will not be possible starting the day PvP patch goes in.