Crafting/Harvesting Crisis

[shrike]

Sorry you can't see it Shrike, but nerfing now prevents new Foragers from even remotely getting the kind of xp I did to level up. You'll especially see this in the new patch with levels 50-100. If you really aren't concerned with others levels like you say they are, why would you constantly post about it in both american and european forums? You seem to be the only one who doesn't see it.

Hahaha... Thats rich coming from someone who does exactly the same.

Guess what, I lvled up to lvl 115 without using mat spec at all. And I still advanced in it FAR faster than in my crafting tree. "cannot keep up", yeah, right....

You seem to have the impression that the 3k for each foraging was normal. It's not.

Fighters/Mages get materials as supplemental. An extra bonus and reward, not as their purpose. That is simply the difference, the purpose of a Forager is to get mats. Why the difference? to make them something unique and to let it have some purpose. If they'd really wanted to make it balanced then there would be more variety of bonuses on quartered mats, they've got very few. When you get up to supreme grade of anything, it matters a lot less anyways.

Thank you fo showing that you have no clue about quartered mats - there is as much variation with the as with foraged ones.

And to repeat myself for your ignoring pleasure:
Since you seem to be the opinion that it should be please answer me why nevrax thought it a good idea to divide the different mat boni between quartered and foraged mats. Or ignore that issue like before....

In many cases Foragers already do, too much in fact.

Righty-o. Let me see. where am I? Ah, yes, in the prime roots, the most dangerous area to harvest. Do I have a escort? No, doing just fine without it, thank you.
Sure, some spots are so camped that one cannot access them - but you don't have only *one* spot for a mat. Harvesters who think they need escort need to search more or switch the area.

No, what I think you really want is to eliminate the need for foragers entirely.

Again something alrerady said for your ignoring pleasure:
Also, when you look at the stats it's pretty obvious that the devs originally meant the let mob & harvested mats to coexist with each other. For example, there exist no mobmats with damageboni and there exist no foraged mats with speedboni. Similar, there exist no mobmats with casting speed boni, nor are there foraged mats with spell power boni. And so on....

This alone pretty much guarantees that foragers will never die out. Even if you could get the same qual mats from both professions you would need a mix of quartered and foraged mats to make the best stuff.

Also, at lvls 1-50 you pretty much have balance between mob & foraged mats qualitywise, and guess what - foraged mats are still in high demand there.

Ok, first, just because I didn't comment in your favor doesn't me I agreed with everyone discussing the other side of the coin up until the point that I commented. We may actually be arguing with different people.

So, first, I have never advocated allowing fighters/mages to completely bypass the need for foragers. I see a circle. Foragers depend on fighters. Fighter/Mages depend on crafters. Crafters depend on Foragers.

Now, my problem lies in that nobody seems to want to depend on fighters/mages, for the most part, except for other fighters/mages. To what end? You Forager for materials and levels. The Crafter crafts for the items created and levels. I fight for levels and...?!? So, since I see Foragers complaining about mob spawns on their sources and how that's not right, blah, blah, blah. Fine, you remove me from the circle then so you can forage with little risk. That means I have to find somewhere else in the circle. Since Foragers don't need me then that means I have to find a way for the Crafters to need me and, if that is the case, I would rather it be for something different than grinding materials.

100% the same opinion here.

[svayvti]

Jdiegel, if you think the point of this thread is foragers asking for mobs to be removed, you need to start from the beginning and read it all over again. Plus as you've so kindly pointed in for your own analogy, Crafters aren't dependent on Foragers are they? because of quartered mats. So your logic breaks down there.

As for which one is dependent on who, the loss of which skill would bring the game to a crashing halt? fight/magic or forage?

Shrike as usual you evaded my whole point, sure to me smells like a troll. Its not that newbie crafters can't keep up with foragers in levels.. why are you worried about comparing them? I've answered your questions, go back and read them if you're really failing to understand. I'm not convinved you are, I'm more convinced you're just trolling and edited my post. If someone else wants me to answer the questions then I will, but I'm not under the impression anyone actually fails to understand.

This thread is getting rather off-topic, I hope people can stick to the topic of the original post.

[jdiegel]

Jdiegel, if you think the point of this thread is foragers asking for mobs to be removed, you need to start from the beginning and read it all over again. Plus as you've so kindly pointed in for your own analogy, Crafters aren't dependent on Foragers are they? because of quartered mats. So your logic breaks down there.

Actually, I saw one of your comments and responded to YOU specifically with what I thought, rather off handedly too, and you jumped down my throat. Have a good evening sir.

[shrike]

....
Shrike as usual you evaded my whole point, sure to me smells like a troll. Its not that newbie crafters can't keep up with foragers in levels.. why are you worried about comparing them?

A carpet calls someone else flat...

Care to tell me which points I avoided? And, while you're at it, could you please stop to avoid my points. Still haven't recieved any direct answers to those...

My point was that those hit with the nerfs will be new Foragers, who are coming into foraging where 3k exp will no longer be normal. Trust me for me 3k exp every pull was normal, and 114 is not someone who was a hardcore forager during that time. This would all even be okay, except those high levels of foraging are needed to even remotely give foraging a decent chance of pulling enough mats to supply crafters.

Just because it was normal to you doesn't means it was meant to be normal. And, as said, you can lvl up without mat spec *just fine*. And you don't need to be lvl 200 in forage to suplly crafters with mats at a reasonable rate.

If you were really paying attention to your mats, quartered or foraged. You'd notice there are only a few types of boost categories. Care to find me a quartered mat that specifically boosts any affliction skill? There are ambers for boosting many different aspects of magic focus.. but only a couple for quartered materials. The great diversity of bonus is in foraged materials. ...

http://img93.exs.cx/img93/1365/def-aff.jpg

Any requests for the other types? Can prove you totally utterly wrong as often as you want...

Since you're in the prime roots like I am. How many areas do you find supreme mats in? what is their availability? how often are those spots guarded by aggro mobs? what is the frequency of kitin patrols? My guild does both named mobs and foraging. Have you even tried to see which is more effective? Do you know which groups die more often and tally more downtime and death penalty?

- all my spots have supreme mats, some quite infrequently, some very frequently. Able to get TONs of supreme shu fiber and gultac oil (in fact I have more of those than excellent), moderate amounts of supreme dung resinm visc sap and mortega wood. Supreme zun amber and big shell are rare, but getting exccelent in big amounts is no problem.
And those are only the mats I use primary - got easily acessible spots for 2 other kind of oils, fibers, resins, ambers, 1 spot for beckers bar, 1 for splinter shell, 1-2 counterweigt spots. I think I found seeds somewhere, too, but not totally sure.

- around 10-20% are inacessible to to aggro mobs, around another 20% are danger zones, meaning sometimes they are free, sometimes they can be accessed. The only real essential mat which is blocked by aggros (boss + guards) is oath bark.

- kittin patrols are very infrequent in my area (some root areas are packed with them, some are not). If I stay away from their patrol routes I can go afk for any time period.

The one who is ignoring, being oblivious is you. I'm done indulging your cross-community troll fest because its obvious from all your posts you care more about people outleveling you than what the situation is with the game.

Whatever suits you. Have fun being a rabid foraging fanboy.

[kisedd]

What is the purpose of mages and fighters right now? All I see them doing is "character development". Level for the pure purpsose of leveling. Get a new power once in awile. Some call this the treadmill in the genere.

Most fighters and mages want to be "Heroes". Save the princess and all that. Claim the "glory" of doing something cool. Few want to "work" on the strategic battlefield of holding their historical role of advancing territory and protecting national resources; ie guarding harvesters.

Heroic fighters want rewards, "phat loot", or any loot. Why kill something if there is no reward. Games that have no loot and nothing cool to fight for, quickly have a lot of bored combat types. The simple fact overall is that combat types could care less about anythign other than what they want to do.

Combat types are dependant on crafters to produce their goods. That is how a crafting economy works. Things break down because combat characters level far faster than crafters. It takes a pretty diehard person to level up any crafting profession. My only understanding is that you must seperate the "real" crafters from the "casual". You can't have an economy if everyone makes everythign for themselves. Make crafting such a tedious pain in the rump that most just don't bother.

It is clear that there isn't enough demand from players to naturally level up the number of people who might enjoy being a crafter. 12000 mats it takes to advance whatever amount of levels for one person is huge! You can turn up the decay rate all you want, that's a lot of stuff!!