Ryzom

True, Acridiel dear but that's for heroes
It has to be needed by the majority of player base not be only an act of self pride for 1% of players hehe

I would like deposits to change place regularly (and often).
That would make those prospecting skills really matter.
As it is, once you find the location of deposits, you bookmark them and prospecting becomes useless, not to mention many players just get the locations directly from certain sites, so they dont need prospecting at all.
Hmmm...i can see a large group of players in the distance...they running towards me with picks in hand...they seem angry...this cant be good, *mounts on his mektoub and vanishes in the jungle.

I agree *runs behind*

CU
Acridiel

kay22626 wrote:I would like deposits to change place regularly (and often).
That would make those prospecting skills really matter.
As it is, once you find the location of deposits, you bookmark them and prospecting becomes useless, not to mention many players just get the locations directly from certain sites, so they dont need prospecting at all.
Hmmm...i can see a large group of players in the distance...they running towards me with picks in hand...they seem angry...this cant be good, *mounts on his mektoub and vanishes in the jungle.

I agree but the devil is in the details. Do you mean all deposits, all zones? I'm not opposed to that but it would definitely make it tougher on newbies.

For me just the Sup/Ex locations in Q250 PR zones would be enough. I'ld sort of like the resetting of the nodes to be at the start of each season too -- rather than server resets. I'ld also sort of like the nodes to have different timers as to when they become available during a season. And I'ld also like a tracking message for when a mat has been dug out for the season and prob a message to deal with the season timer if implemented.

I do not see this as all that big an issue either but it would be nice and really might not be all that difficult to implement.

I do not see Players getting locations from databases as all that bad a thing. It is each players choice -- no one is forcing you to do that. For instance, I tried to find TP locations on my own at first but I found it too difficult and settled for just the challenge of getting to the TPs after I already knew their locations from databases. But I figured in "reality" I would have been able to get that info from the Kami/Karavan NPCs at other TPs.

the deposits jumping around is not a bad idea, but are we talking about the nodes moving every season... the only thing i must say is i was never a lvler thus in my 2-3 years of playing i never mastered a skill. so digging in the higher lvls could be a pain.. plus i'm an aussie so when i log in usually there is no one about and if nodes are surrounded by mobs like torbaks or cutlers theres not much i can do.. granted I'll do other things.

i don't want to make it any easier digging.. nor do i wanna make it harder so if we could move the mobs in respect to the nodes moving I'd be more then happy with that.

just my thoughts

For me just the Sup/Ex locations in Q250 PR zones would be enough. I'ld sort of like the resetting of the nodes to be at the start of each season too -- rather than server resets. I'ld also sort of like the nodes to have different timers as to when they become available during a season. And I'ld also like a tracking message for when a mat has been dug out for the season and prob a message to deal with the season timer if implemented.

i would say it would be too much effort to do somethink like this

I came to the game when all was explored already and all charted as well. To make things worse I was a prospecting calamity, Goupi is my witness, he prospected for me every single node that I painfully found in Avendale. I was an extreme example of finidng only big pearls when looking for anette fiber.

But when I got the knack for it, bye bye charting or even poor Goupi. Had my own dear charts and even today I still have 2-3 spots not charted anywhere except for my brains.

So yeah, charted, moving, it's a lot of fun anyway.

Coming back to ancient SWG memories, it was a lot of fun and challenge to be the first to chart a new resource maximum concentration on a given planet on a given cycle.

P.S. Goupi is the first TSer to put step on Atys, he was 2 weeks older than us all and also responsible with us all TSers who followed him And even if he doesn't troll now as around as I do, he's in start position to play again hehe.

arfindel wrote:Not only. The sensibility of mobs to certain types of attacks is waaay too weak in Ryzom. Sure you can be very attentive and learn their sensitivities, but at any point a kipuka can be killed with electricity instead of the orthodox ice aso. Only Mdakaoo and Shooketh put in the end some small problems, as always solved with numbers (sigh).

Or think about the long life animals - if the meleer who tanks had ever been required to really fight, the stamina saving stanzas would really be useful.

At some point the old players find the best combos and use only those, agree. But the best combos are overly reduced in Ryzom by lack of fine tunning of the pve, armors etc. Then instead of having some oldies able to know best combos for all situations (preferably countless), you have all players older than 2 weeks who know them.

In pvp though - as long as we don't talk about mass wars - knowing and adjusting a reasonably high number of actions, at least for meleers and healers, was not so handy for everyone.

wow, i'm gonna have to say i disagree with this post so much as to say i disagree with it a lot!


"if the meleer who tanks had ever been required to really fight,"
Ouch O.o ?
For starters, i dont really think i appreciate how much you downgrade melee-ers here!

I'm melee above all else, ESPECIALLY nuking. sure a nuker can dish out damage faster, but the efficiency of a nuker is total crap compared to a melee. true both can solo efficiently enough, but a nuker's chance of dying / chance of actually doing proper solo work is INSANELY reduced compared to the meleeer!

remove the healer and a melee wins over nuker hands down everytime (pve) Melee can last longer, take more hits, and do more overall damage. a nuker with a max-efficiency nuke STILL runs out of sap/hp too fast to be useful for long!

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"The sensibility of mobs to certain types of attacks is waaay too weak in Ryzom. "

Um.. try to fight a kipucka with a sword, then repeat that phrase for me

(edit :: i may have misread you here.. keeping this in case i didnt )

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"At some point the old players find the best combos and use only those, agree."

Disagree. i'm an "old player" (even if i've not maxed out my skills.. hell i have NO 250s, but i'm still way more efficient than half the 250-ers i know). Doing some pretty intensive research on the different skills and stanzas, i've come up with DOZENS of stanzas that are useful for different situations and based on different weapons. there's so much more than hitting the hardest involved.

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"you have all players older than 2 weeks who know them."

You'd be surprised.. in any guild i've been in, i've always been the "trainer" for new join-ees. (this is probably why i have no 250s, i have too much fun with the little tykes )

Everytime i take a group of my guildies out with some other players from other guilds. The other player has no clue how to do half the things my trainees do. there's a lot involved that most people just ignore, and there's nothing sadder than seeing a lvl 150 (once i even ran into two lvl 220s!!) that don't know how to REALLY fight.

i'm basing all of the above on PvE. I'm not a pvper and never have been.

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don't worry folks, i Loves me my Faa but i just couldnt let this post go unchallenged.. sorry for that Faa! *tacklehugs*

kuroari wrote:wow, i'm gonna have to say i disagree with this post so much as to say i disagree with it a lot!


"if the meleer who tanks had ever been required to really fight,"
Ouch O.o ?
For starters, i dont really think i appreciate how much you downgrade melee-ers here!

I'm melee above all else, ESPECIALLY nuking. sure a nuker can dish out damage faster, but the efficiency of a nuker is total crap compared to a melee. true both can solo efficiently enough, but a nuker's chance of dying / chance of actually doing proper solo work is INSANELY reduced compared to the meleeer!

remove the healer and a melee wins over nuker hands down everytime (pve) Melee can last longer, take more hits, and do more overall damage. a nuker with a max-efficiency nuke STILL runs out of sap/hp too fast to be useful for long!

--

"The sensibility of mobs to certain types of attacks is waaay too weak in Ryzom. "

Um.. try to fight a kipucka with a sword, then repeat that phrase for me

(edit :: i may have misread you here.. keeping this in case i didnt )

--

"At some point the old players find the best combos and use only those, agree."

Disagree. i'm an "old player" (even if i've not maxed out my skills.. hell i have NO 250s, but i'm still way more efficient than half the 250-ers i know). Doing some pretty intensive research on the different skills and stanzas, i've come up with DOZENS of stanzas that are useful for different situations and based on different weapons. there's so much more than hitting the hardest involved.

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"you have all players older than 2 weeks who know them."

You'd be surprised.. in any guild i've been in, i've always been the "trainer" for new join-ees. (this is probably why i have no 250s, i have too much fun with the little tykes )

Everytime i take a group of my guildies out with some other players from other guilds. The other player has no clue how to do half the things my trainees do. there's a lot involved that most people just ignore, and there's nothing sadder than seeing a lvl 150 (once i even ran into two lvl 220s!!) that don't know how to REALLY fight.

i'm basing all of the above on PvE. I'm not a pvper and never have been.

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don't worry folks, i Loves me my Faa but i just couldnt let this post go unchallenged.. sorry for that Faa! *tacklehugs*

QFE!!!!

Couldn´t have said it better NB

I´ve dome many of my skills solo, just because I like it that way, even while I belonged to a Guild. I still had some fun leveling with others, but I like to explore on my own and almost as a sidenote gain a level No 250 either.

And I sure once beat a 225 Meleethat had a 2 H Sword with my daggers, me being just 110 then, by hitting him on the head and thereby stunning him into inaction, then getting ye´olde ignore armor´n bleed out and letting him slowly bleed to death... I got a few hits but hey, most I dodged. It was a tight win but I did it with about 300 HP to his Zero. Me in Medium, he in heavy.
And I´m in no way a pvper, it was just a friendly match.

And PvE wise, I see people killng cratchas in Void, one at a time and then either getting healed or sitting down to recuperate. Me I go for about 3-4 a before I have to sit down and take a breather.
Just because I know how to use my stanzas.
Most of these peeps were what we came to call High-Lvl-Noobs and heavily Christal dependent.
*shrug* If that´s what they want, so be it.
It´s just a shame to hear statements as the above then.

CU
Acridiel

kuroari wrote:[...]

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don't worry folks, i Loves me my Faa but i just couldnt let this post go unchallenged.. sorry for that Faa! *tacklehugs*

[/quote]

Last things first Don't worry I love to be challenged and this makes the pleasure of discussing; let's try to all agree on everything, see how fast we grow bored to death Secondly, if we all agreed on Ryzom and the game weren't such a huge debatable item, probably Ryzom was not so complex and clever as we usually think of it hehe.

Now let's see it closer.

kuroari wrote:[...]
"if the meleer who tanks had ever been required to really fight,"
Ouch O.o ?
For starters, i dont really think i appreciate how much you downgrade melee-ers here!

I used to be only melee in SWG, preferably unarmed (*sigh* these were the days) in Ryzom tried a lot to find the same old fun but slowly felt pushed to afflictions. And I do base my experience on pve and pvp as well even if close pvp combat was seldom in Ryzom and that's where real skill and combinations of stanzas can be compared. Probably Biskibis is the best to talk to about pvp uses though, I've never knwon anyone else to walk around with 5-6 kinds of different weapons for different uses hehe. But I still have some experience even if I know out there some players much better than me at it.

Can you deny that any person in HA with 1-2 spell masters can tank successfully if 1-2 nukers with 1-2 healers are actually doing the fight? No need even for level 1 melee for that. And on a proff level, have you seen teams with no tank at all but with afflis (either as skill or as enchantment) taking out big bosses - ehh, that's rhetorical, I'm sure you did.
Secondly. Can you do any serious boss as meleer+healer and the fight duration stay within reasonable limits?
Thirdly. How long it takes to get a healing/nuking master as compared to a melee master?

kuroari wrote: I'm melee above all else, ESPECIALLY nuking. sure a nuker can dish out damage faster, but the efficiency of a nuker is total crap compared to a melee. true both can solo efficiently enough, but a nuker's chance of dying / chance of actually doing proper solo work is INSANELY reduced compared to the meleeer!

For the performance sake only you're right. That's what I ment to Acridiel when mentionning "heroes". All servers had their melee "heroes", you, Zahan, Biski, Vrash, Rush with her knives and I could come with a list of some 10 names. In a certain sense that's the world of hard core players, only games that need to earn money are not ment for hard core players so much.

For usability sake you're terribly wrong. One doesn't fight just for the sake of fighting, you fight to achieve something. For me fighting was largely a digging helpful skill. And here melee gets excluded. You cannot comfortably dig when 2/3 of your inventory is full of melee stuff to survive, but you can easily defend yourself and keep you alive with amps only.

Next is bosses. You can fight bosses as meleer but in general you cannot solo one single top level boss and if you don't have a nuker your fight can last up to 2 hours which is certainly not reasonable, let alone feasible.
Most bosses under lvl 200 can be successfully soloed by meleer, it's fun, but not for long. For your meleer you need gear of bosses 250+ mats and you cannot go with loot lvl 200 to your crafter and ask him make anything out of it.

The nuker chance of dying is pretty high... if he is clumsy. But as you yourself asume in the very next lines, the meleer can die as fast as a nuker for this same reason A nuker who has fine tuned stanzas, knows well the aggro distance and the speed of the mob, knows and uses afflis generally can solo lots of high level mobs.

kuroari wrote: remove the healer and a melee wins over nuker hands down everytime (pve) Melee can last longer, take more hits, and do more overall damage. a nuker with a max-efficiency nuke STILL runs out of sap/hp too fast to be useful for long!

A clever nuker doesn't run out of sap, a meleer, even clumsy, doesn't run fast enough of stamina, that's the correction I would like to see done. The melee proffessions have tens of great ways to save stamina, in most of cases redered useless by the game play where this stamina is not actually used up. Whoever created the professions thought them very well - fine tunning left to be done with advance of the game. Nuking and healing, because of fast levelling, took advantage of this fine tunning much more than meleeing, players gave faster feed back on magic arts than on melee ones.

Now curiously in pvp what you're saying fits much better than in pve for me. This reminds me of a friendly war we arranged as RP event with a certain guild. As long as we kept balanced teams on both sides the result neither of us really won. In the last round though, as we were all in team meleing too, we gave up to nuking, healing whatever, all of us got healing enchants and all team went meleeing, then we won fast and clean to the surprise of the others who thought that without healer we'll be lost.

But I am not sure at all this should happen in a balanced game. I rather believe the length of the meleer life is overrated somehow.

kuroari wrote:
"The sensibility of mobs to certain types of attacks is waaay too weak in Ryzom. "

Um.. try to fight a kipucka with a sword, then repeat that phrase for me

I know about a kipucka with a sword muhaha, tried it myself. But unfortunately it's a very very rare example. I was refering to magic types of damage. What I wish to see is that same kipucka never die from a fire or electrical attack, whatever the level and the number of attackers (or die after making so much damage that the fight be really bad). And I wish to see the same way of reacting extended so more mobs have a different resist to slashing/piercing/smashing on melee side and acid/ice/fire/electr/poison etc on the other side.

What happens in real game play is most players (again not the "orthodox heroes") will nuke down that kipuk using whatever spell they fancy more as animation and won't care it takes 1/800 s more to die because it's not ice.

kuroari wrote: "At some point the old players find the best combos and use only those, agree."

Disagree. i'm an "old player" (even if i've not maxed out my skills.. hell i have NO 250s, but i'm still way more efficient than half the 250-ers i know). Doing some pretty intensive research on the different skills and stanzas, i've come up with DOZENS of stanzas that are useful for different situations and based on different weapons. there's so much more than hitting the hardest involved.

I believe you do it and it worth doing as brain game, but, again, you're an "orthodox hero", you want it. The game shouldn't allow only people who want it badly do the research, but also force most players do it. Then you as hero will have a serious challenge to discover optimised stazas that nobody thought about before you on one side, and to the more casual player the pleasure to learn/compose maybe old combos but new for him. Very good things if they are too optional can go unappreciated.
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kuroari wrote: Everytime i take a group of my guildies out with some other players from other guilds. The other player has no clue how to do half the things my trainees do. there's a lot involved that most people just ignore, and there's nothing sadder than seeing a lvl 150 (once i even ran into two lvl 220s!!) that don't know how to REALLY fight.

Long ago in SWG I've seen a guy dressed in the toughest armor in game, he was fighting some mobs in a group and trying to tank. He was constantly doing one single move, the hardest hit on master level. He kept dieing once in some 4-5 minutes and the poor healer had to rez him all the time. I was intrigued, then amused and finally asked him when did he buy this char over ebay? It was his time to be intrigued, not so amused tho *grin*

Yeah I know what you mean about knwoing about how to really fight, but as long as the game doesn't implement some tunning to not allow you be successful without some knowledge, it's like the knowledge was not there at all. Those guys who didn't know how to use their skills will keep melee just as a means to improve HP, will level fast nuking, will electro-nuke eveyrything and with a healer's help will kill all mobs, in wars will feel useful (unless they fight for the minority when some crazy people like me will try to explain them they're a liability not an asset ), they'll lose some duels but nothing else will bother them.

Another example from Faa's childhood: she was healer (and nothing else) about level 100 maximum 120. With a nuker 250, and 2 other higher healers they got wiped like 4 times when trying to cross the Matis Maze. Then another nuker came who knew his ways and they finally crossed. With the same nuker (not master, maybe 200 or 230 at that time) she crossed all Hidden Source, while very proud of her heals Still when she wants to cross somebody to Wastelands tps she still prefers HA and her sword

Finally there is a huge disbalance between professions in melee. A fist fighter has zero, nada, nema, none chances against a 2h axe weidler. Now I believe somebody with an axe should have an advantage to make immersion deeper, but a slight advantage is one thing, giving some reward to a very good fist fighter at least make the fight very hard to win for the 2h axe guy is another.

kuroari wrote: i'm basing all of the above on PvE. I'm not a pvper and never have been.

as long as pvp is friendly you should not be disappointed if in the future you'll try it. Some of my best memories are TS against Evolution, TS against Dragonblades, the Sams sword contest, in guild tournaments, events in the PR saving kidnapped trykerettes aso