Ryzom

meloner wrote:I pretty much agree with everything uve said..except that. Some people enjoy watching and/or filming battles. OP's also make a nice safe spot to pull mobs.

Ok, i can understand the point about filming or watching, but i don't agree with the safe spot for pulls: not every OPs are in state of war, if you find one, don't pull there.

Anyway my suggestions were here just to say (to players and GF): ok, we stay as in the past for now, because we need csr's, but please, take your time to find a game mechanic that suits the OP war.

Most of the answers seems anchored to a 'do nothing and continue as is (at least we have the knowledge, why change something?)' or 'i can live with aggro dragging'. Doesn't exists any community that can totally self-polish itself and you are still thinking that the community is what it is now, since 2 years.... If the game, as we all hope, will make more peeps (really more), the community will not be necessarily the same (and it will not be). Unless you want to close the door to the new players. One of the biggest mistake you can do is: welcome new homin! this is *our* Atys, enjoy and learn how to do as *we* have decided.
In this case, the community (and the game) will never grown.

PS: in the meanwhile, we really appreciate a good challenging invasion

komissar wrote:

again look at the screenies here please:
http://www.neva.org/forum/files/androbia-statement-150807_116.jpg
http://pechalno-kogda.pisem.net/screenshot024.jpg

WTFudge did you not read your your SS's?!

me wrote: aggro dragging is NOT allowed!

http://www.neva.org/forum/files/androbia-statement-150807_116.jpg wrote: Agro dragging at op battles or any other time is not permissable

me wrote: false declares will be punished!

http://www.neva.org/forum/files/androbia-statement-150807_116.jpg wrote: False declaration that is brought to my attention wil be judged

so, erm, you've really confused me by telling me to re-read it.


to answer you're obviously now invalid points:

1. no CSR has to attend an OP battle <-- no CSR has been the way a while now. I'm totaly against it, but the best policing service is self-policing, we need to know where to draw the limit ourselves. IF it gets out of hand, send in a ticket.
2. Aggro dragging becomes a normal ploy (including drtagging aggro on foragers and in OP fights) <-- proved wrong by http://www.neva.org/forum/files/androbia-statement-150807_116.jpg
3. Spawn camping is allowed <-- <insert_name> (until he say's its fine) was baned for 24 hours for spawn camping very recently. May be 'allowed' at the time, but is delt with.
4. False declarations on OPs (when not a single attacker shows up) are allowed. <-- again, similar to spawn camping, although no one can stop a false declare, getting the CSR's involved will at least mean they invstiagte it then act accordingly

Actualy i DO know whats going on. whats going on is everyone is blowing this out of porotion.
If someone is rude in /re:
SS it, ticket it, then put them on ignore.
If someone agro drags:
SS it, ticket it, then put them on ignore.
If someone spawn camps:
SS it, ticket it, then put them on ignore.
If someone continuious false declares on you:
SS it & ticket it.

Really not that difficult. Is It?

Just becuase they are not their at the time doesnt mean they wont deal with it. As <insert_name> will tell you.

The way i see it: If the most senior member of the CSR's changes a rule. that IS the rule, so why the heck were people still debating about agro dragging even after it emerged that you're not allowed to agro drag, thats who i was calling nubs.

I might be wrong Anatti but I think instructions have been given to CSR and some CSR decided to uphold the old rules at their own risks (the screenshots)..

Exactly...

Androbia tries to uphold old rules against official GF "new policy"
She is doing this for us, the players, the community.

And she can very easily lose her CSR job over it.

Kinda weird that i have to say it 3 times in a row...

GF says aggro drag and rest IS allowed. Androbia will uphold the rules of not allowing it on her own now at her own risks.

See the difference???

Whilst not having read the whole thread, just 4 post in the beginning I may add something von the german point of view:

I asked several months ago, it may be already more than 12, if it was ok to fake-click an OP with not showing up. The answer was "yes, it is ok. this is a tactical issue".
Then I asked: So, is it okay to pull Yelks into a pulk of Mektoubs and bomb them to green poisonsmoke? "No, this is not ok.", was the answer.

So the rules have changed to my comfort. I like the idea of bringing the environment into the fight. But not this damn fake-clicking during the night. Now it holds a balance, somewhat.

Greetings,
d´Omir

I remember when complaining about removing the ability of a OP tagged player to heal a non combatant in an an instance when I was digging about 6 x the distance from when "pick a side" message from an OP battle and was aggro dragged, the responses here on this forum were, typically:

1. Go dig somewhere else.
2. When you entered the area, you accepted the risk.

I also noticed that the person who dragged the aggro, who wavered substantially out of the way from the "shortest distance between two points" to swing around past me is one who frequently complains about aggro dragging. So, yes, the poll option of Yes, when I do it, it's OK seems appropriate.

However when running back from a spawn to the battle, one can easily enough pick up aggro. So who is left to decide whether it was an accident or not ? Now while I can see many arguments as to whether such is a noble thing, I see no practical way to consistently judge intentional from unintentional. It also seems that some people like finely written rules mainly so they can figure out legitimate ways to skirt along the edge of them.

And, as others have said, why not be able to use the environment in a war ? Didn't Tarzan do just that ? Rambo ? To borror from the above instance which I experienced "When you entered the area, you accepted the risk." But in this case one actually did. They even clicked on a pop up that said they did. I think the reason GF is turning a blind eye is that , they see the futility in trying to do it fairly and w/o potential for abuse. " Oh how come when Player X dragged aggro it was OK and when Player Y did it, it wasn't ? I bet it is because the CSR's IG toon is a meber of that side." So yes, I understand GF's incliniation to stay outta it.

It's much easier to make sure everyone is on a level playing field and avoid the controversy by just turning a blind eye. It's battle. The purpose of the battle is to kill each other. To paraphrase a line from the movie "My Cousin Vinny" "If a poor little doe sees her brains laying on the side of a brook, would she give a %$#@% about what color pants the guy who blew her her head off was wearin ? ". OTOH, boss / 40 minions aggro dragging seems to be a unique situation. Only way to fix that is to move bosses outta attack range of an OP.

Everyone involved clicked the popup saying a) "I am fighting for this side" and b) "I am aware that I am subject to attack". Simple, if someone wants to aggro drag you, root his butt and make sure he / she pays the price. Unlike the local digger down the raod a piece, there's no DP penalty so where is the real downside ?

jared96 wrote: so where is the real downside ?

The downside is wars do not stop because an individual is not tagged. Aggro draggin in a battle is not any different play style then aggro dragging on a digger collecting resources for that battle.

What is the difference between a false "tactical" declare and a false "blocking" declare? If GF goes hands off of OP's wont everyone keep threshold at over 20?

I think guide lines and suggestions are more then enough to control 99.98% of the player base but if those guidelines are do whatever the heck you want, I think only the .02% will remain in the game

I also think there's nothing wrong with aggro dragging in an OP battle. It's using the environment to your advantage just the same as nuking the yelks that the enemy army is silly enough to stand next to (Woodburn Stronghold), hiding in the plods when you're under launcher fire (Zo-Kian Workshop), or standing behind a hill so the enemy can't target you (Woodburn Magic Pole). If those kinds of tactics are undesired, we should be having these battles on a featureless plain instead of on our living planet.

(Less seriously, aggro-dragging would also instantly give outposts more PvE element! )

Allowed false declarations as said would probably lead to constant trading of outposts for treshold raising, as that'd be the only worthwhile way to defend an outpost against a constant spam of declarations which may or may not be real attacks. It'd be the end of the massive battles we have now, and I'd miss those. So I'd prefer no false declarations.

Either way, I do think CSRs should be present at OP battles to enforce whatever rules they decide on. No matter how many rules they let go of, there'll always be some things that need policing. Inappropriate language if nothing else.

sidusar wrote: (Less seriously, aggro-dragging would also instantly give outposts more PvE element! )

LOL - Wheres Jyudas when ya want him.

ajsuk wrote:LOL - Wheres Jyudas when ya want him.

I miss jyudas ;'(

forums are so boring now