Community, what community?

[kyesmith]

Katriell how can you believe that there is anything inherently wrong or evil about charity?

By definition you are helping those that for some reason could not make it. Many of those reasons may be reasons that you should. Any interaction would be a form of judgement, or at least a form of judgement far more severe than no charity at all.

your only gunna get back a responce like, its a game LOL! *looks at my sig*

[philu]

Well done everyone for proving Rushin's point.

It's threads like this that drive some of the better members of the community, like Rushin, away. I can think of far too many others that have left because of their disappointment of what the community has become. When will you people ever learn?

Above all else, those of us that have the original box... some of us mousepads, hats and video cards (damn joo Kaetemi) feel there is still more for us in SoR (sadly the Saga is gone)...

Though I only quoted this bit (because I agree with this bit most), I agree with all of DT's post (hey that was easier to say than I thought! ). That was one of the few good posts in this thread, too many others let themselves down again.

Only other post I wanted to comment on was this:

The touted community I heard so much before joining is mostly gone (luckily still somewhat alive on the Kami side).

Because I don't agree with it. Sadly it's the Kami side that let themselves down most.*



*FYI I AM Kami or would be if I had any respect for the Kami and their followers left.

[arfindel]

[...]
Once a player chooses a faction they have chosen to participate in the Saga. If you want out of the story (conflict), get out of the factions. [...]Pero

Not following in detail your little verbal duel.
But isn't it a bit extreme to automatically consider people out of conflict out of the story? Cmon, I am faction, and I am in conflict, but there is both mechanically and lorewise possible to be out of conflict but not out of story.

Every drunkard in Thesos bar is part of the conflict? Every lil crafter selling stuff in Avendale is part of the conflict? Every newborn at Yrkan gates is part of the conflict?

You mean this story is made only by military people and some politicians? What they eat these soldiers? Who makes their clothes? Who has wooven even the tiny hammok in which mighty Pero rests his tired bones after some gory verbal wars? (hihi couldn't resist, sorry)

[portios]

Without hate of certain players and the ability to be BETTER then others, competition stops, and the need to develop stops.

The kami alliance, is a forum. Simple as that, why? because they dont want to be lead, not by anyone. No matter who it is.

Everyone needs to learn this is a game, put on a gameface, and compete. But come on, the namecalling needs to stop.

Very darn good post, change Hate for rivalry thou, hate usually hurts you more than your oponent.

[kyesmith]

Without hate of certain players and the ability to be BETTER then others, competition stops, and the need to develop stops.

Everyone needs to learn this is a game, put on a gameface, and compete. But come on, the namecalling needs to stop.

I dont class myself as a RPer, but over time my character has become more and more radical kami, i am horrible to most karavan cos thats how my toon would be if these events where real, ive taken it too far in the past, i had one or two rants at some OOTN players cos of the MoM attack.

I would not agro drag, i can count the amount of times ive got annoyed with players in one hand (no i dont have a deformed hand with 20 fingers). Resently i get far far more abusive tells then ever before, but then again i dont think many people unstand the way i play ryzom aww well i still have fun and thats what matters

[danolt]

Not following in detail your little verbal duel.
But isn't it a bit extreme to automatically consider people out of conflict out of the story? Cmon, I am faction, and I am in conflict, but there is both mechanically and lorewise possible to be out of conflict but not out of story.

The point I was trying to make is that if you join the faction you join the conflict, "when your a Jet your a Jet all the way..."

In pledging support to a higher power, the character is going to be put in situations that can no longer be controlled by the player. The character is now part of a faction and is affected by the deeds, goals, ideals, philosophies of the entire faction. They will share in the victories and defeats of the side that the character pledged a sacramental oath to support.

A non factioned player is certainly part of the saga, but they can step in and out of the fight, they are not held accountable for the choices of the factions and in turn have limited influence upon the main drivers of events. The nonfactioned individual is able to maintain a much greater sense of control, but has to work much harder to influence events and in some cases may not be able to influence them at all.

There is room for every type of play style on Atys. The problem is, to many people want to keep their hands in every pot and refuse to take their hands out when it is time to refill the cookie jar.

[xfluffee]

Then perhaps forming a concrete alliance would improve performance in Alliance vs Alliance game content?

Nah. The Kami are too independent, and aren't willing to be herded around. Not for cats, not for OPs, not for anything.

What does exist among the Kami is friendship, cooperation, trust, and respect. This is something cats, flowers, and OP mats can't buy. Even now, the Kami "community" is coming together better than I have seen in the few months that I've been here, after some of the more recent internal happenings. Before a week or two ago, I never would have written any of this about the Kami.

So, if the only reason to adopt a more rigid alliance structure is to win OPs, then no thanks. Other than the imbalance they offer to those who have the most, they don't really add anything useful to the game. The Kami, in general, understand that the game is to have "fun", and no one can define what "fun" means to anyone else.

Fun, enjoyment... it is its own reward.

[xfluffee]

The want to be better then someone else. THAT want, that feeling inside is a feeling worth stribing for. That feeling of standing as number 1 in a large sport competition, that feeling cant be beaten. Not with all the money in the world.

This sounds like more than the "friendly competition" that exists between good friends. So no, that's not worth striving for. There is always someone better, so you are ALWAYS going to wind up at the end of the long road smeared with unhappiness or failure.

Instead, what is worth striving for, is to be better tomorrow than you are today. You strive to improve yourself. But to go into further discussion might take us too deeply into discussions of ethics and morals which many seem to take offence at, so I guess we can agree to disagree.

And those that have done it, knows exactly what I am talking about.

I'm afraid I will have to continue to disagree. Age and experience have taught me differently. At the end of the day, if I have only concerned myself with beating someone else, I have only neglected the things about life that hold the most meaning. (Again, dodging the philosophical/ethical/moral debate)

There are many people for to your words ring out with absolute truth, there is no doubt there.
But there are many others to whom you are speaking an unknown language.

[roseh]

Roseh, you may say you are anti pvp in game, but you are certainly bringing the fight to the forums, in fact you are the one that dropped the napalm that started this latest tit for tat. So pardon me if I take your posts for what they are, an attack.

So basically anything a Kami says on these forums you take as an attack? I have not seen anything offensive in my posts and tried to keep them as level as possible. If you wish to consider it an attack, congradulations, you just proved the thread starter's point.

Every few months, someone comes along and wants everyone to stop being factioned, ignore their oaths, the history , their characters, the lore, game mechanics, etc..because all of those things are wrong, it is really all about sharing and happiness. They say if we all just get along nothing bad is ever going to happen again, there will be no more battles, there will be no more growth, no development, we will all live in consensus, and worship the trees. Which are amazingly similar to the goals of Ma-Duk.

There is a difference between healthy competition and flame wars and dirt flinging that is now seen BECAUSE of the OPs. Anything no matter how innocent done by Kami player is taken as an attack on the Karavan. I mean look at these two flame war posts. Who seems to flame more? It's not about winning the game, it's about having fun IN the game. If you honestly think that once you win the game, the Kami give up on PvP and the Karavan players dominate everything and new players don't stick around because they see a one sided battle and lots of whining from both sides of the fence, that this will be a fun game to play then you are sadly very much mistaken.

Following the lore and the game mechanics is one thing, but if the mechanics are ill suited to balance out the war (as they are supposed to do) and one side is hell bent on domination while the other wants to have fun in the game... Well... This game and the community are on a fast way into hell as I see it and soon it will be nothing but a PvP hell with griefing the only outlet for the PvPers when no OP wars are going on. And I think that's sad for such a great game and a once great community.

[xfluffee]

I was not talking about PvP. No player starts off the game as Kami or Karavan they have to work their fame, then they have to go through a rite. You have to choose to become factioned. It is not easy, it is not something that can be done overnight. It is suppose to have meaning. Each faction has a world view, there is no middle ground and that is why the factions are at war. If you support the ideas of your faction you can not support the other, they are opposites. There is a war because the ideas are in conflict.

I have seen games where this really is true according to the game lore and game mechanics. While the lore of Ryzom does point in this direction, it's not a completely fleshed-out idea. Especially not as far as the game mechanics are concerned. Maybe some NPCs will try to kill you. Whoop-dee. Some mindless creatures will try that too.

I enjoyed reading the lore before I joined. I thought I had found a really immersive game that was more than just kill an orc or troll, cut off some bandit leader's head (which always seems to grow back), and win a title "Hero of the Realm". I was disappointed to find that the lore is misleading of the true game mechanics in most areas, and outright contradicts it in others.

The current battles that exist contribute little or nothing to the story.

And even in the midst of all-out war, there are times of peace. It's crucial for mental and emotional well-being, if nothing else, so you can refresh yourself and recharge for the next battle. I'm reminded of the story my boss told me about the Americans and the Germans playing games (football?) together during Christmas time in WWII.

And even then, there are still some things in life that are more important than trying to kill your neighbor.