Universe Channel - Cho

[ucci28]

OK, I hate that this has to be my first post here in like a year, but I've been seeing all this, and I'm brand new to the mainland and Cho, and I'm tired of all the BS and cowardly behavior, especially now that it's being disguised as intellectualism.

Someone ranted about the desperate importance of freedom of expression. While they did so, they pussy-footed around the actual fact of the matter, which was that the subject in question

Called a CSR a Nazi in universe, where everybody could see it, when they thought said CSR was not around to hear it or defend themselves. Rude, Cowardly, and Offensive for a start, against the rules of Universe Chat merely as an after thought.

For some reason, we needed to be vague about that, but references to Milton, we need.

So here I am, the quintessential Brand New Player who needs Universe Chat.

I don't want to hear your opinions on which CSR's suck when I'm trying to decide if I still want to pay money for your game, while I'm trying to figure out how crafting works. I especially don't want to hear it in the channel that exists to get the questions that I need, answered. And you know what, it's not even a big deal. It's not a big deal until I see people in here whining that it's not only okay to be annoying, but their God-given right. Well it ain't. I know what Universe chat is for, and I've violated the rules by making a joke about something somebody said there, but I'm not going to pitch a fit if somebody tells me not to, because I read the rules, and I know I'm breaking them, because I'm an adult.

The situation that started this thread was vastly understated as well. The conversation about peeing in a circle was not just a question, it was friendly, joking, irrelevant banter (inappropriate for Universe) that went on for 5-10 minutes before the CSR publicly commented for it to stop. I know, because I participating in said inappropriate banter.
It just ticks me off that people would come in here and distort the truth, in cases outright lie about what was said and what wasn't, what was done and what wasn't, all while whining about how important speaking freely is. I hate dishonest causes.

All of that said, there are hardly any people on Cho, and if it wasn't for Universe Chat, I'd still think I was the only person playing. So it would be nice to have some other way to talk to people. But the "lolz pike animation ftw" channel CAN NOT be the same as the "How do I craft helmets?" channel.

[tengheau]

okay, time to get some things straight.

I strongly dislike trashtalk, theme jokes and spamming out questions in uchat. I try to watch for that and have actively called a halt and stopped what I was doing in-game to dig out the question. I am really glad I missed the whole pee circle thing, I can only guess at what the heck such a thing is, but I am pretty sure it wouldn't have contributed to my game experience.

A player wrote an irresponsible and deceitful post to start this thread which does not *begin* to represent the views of the rest of the population of the server. We love our fav CSR in the whole world. I really enjoy her presence and contribution to the server. She is my favorite company rep in any game I ever played, and that included when I had friends programming UO.

I really took, and take offense at arbitrary response by the devs, crushing the small sense of community that exists through the prudent use if uchat on a very empty server, that of shutting everyone up instead of the trouble maker who caused the problem in the first place. It has put a pall on the server, made it uncomfortable and unfun.

I did not call anyone a nazi. Someone being called the "Chat Nazi" happened in an unfortunate mistell which I truly believe was a mistake. It was likely not forgiven as it was the second mistell that happened, mine being the first, that was considered insulting. The reference was to the Seinfeld character "Soup Nazi" not to the historical political party. I have zero problem with that person saying such a thing in a private conversation, mistakes such as this one can be awful and irremediable, that's the hard part of life.

I have nothing at all, and I mean at all, against our CSR last night, I sure the heck wouldn't have wanted to have been in his shoes, but he had a job to do enforcing the will of the devs and it was that will to which I was objecting. he was the public face and the only one we were given to address. In fact, I don't think that the mistell was actually referencing him, I truly believe that the speaker was chaffing at the same unseen decision makers, but I can't actually speak for the misteller.

I think the label of "arbitrary authoritarian" perfectly fits whomever decided on that course of action, and I think hyperbolic aspersions are really to be expected of anyone who takes to themselves the attitude the course of action betrays.

As for what I wrote previously, as weird as it sounds, as weird as I may be, it is not pretending to any intellectualism, (I word I will actually have to spellcheck) it is really pretty close to how I see things, when you read a lot of stuff, pieces fall out when trying to communicate something difficult. And from the perspective of a Yank maven of English and History, the Milton thing was pretty accurate and so used, it wasn't meant to be a flourish.

In summary however, the scale is immaterial, the urge to domineer is either there or it isn't, where it shows itself it deserves all the derision that, in this instance, it received.

Calevin

[grimjim]

I've said it before and I'll say it again...

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19

[mithur]

I've said it before and I'll say it again...

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19

Full agree with you for one time

BTW, The Godwin Law has been fully matched. Why this thread isn't close?

[tengheau]

I've said it before and I'll say it again...

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19

Alright, fine, I guess it's time to stand up and be counted. Yes, though I go by Calevin here, my real name is Jack Thompson http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Thomp ... ttorney%29

[ucci28]

tengheau
***** strongly dislike trashtalk, theme jokes and spamming out questions in uchat. I try to watch for that and have actively called a halt and stopped what I was doing in-game to dig out the question. I am really glad I missed the whole pee circle thing, I can only guess at what the heck such a thing is, but I am pretty sure it wouldn't have contributed to my game experience.****

[no quote button?]

The pee thing wasn't trash talk, it was completely friendly, and everybody who participated in that conversation seemed happy and agreeable to it- there were no public complaints before the CSR told us to pipe down. I bring it up not because it was offensive, but because of the way it was mischaracterized in the beginning of this thread as being brief, and related to game content in some useful way. It was neither of those things.


****** A player wrote an irresponsible and deceitful post to start this thread which does not *begin* to represent the views of the rest of the population of the server. We love our fav CSR in the whole world. I really enjoy her presence and contribution to the server. She is my favorite company rep in any game I ever played, and that included when I had friends programming UO.******

This is a good thing to know! I've haven't been active long, but I haven't had any experiences with staff that I would call less than awesome.

***** I really took, and take offense at arbitrary response by the devs, crushing the small sense of community that exists through the prudent use if uchat on a very empty server, that of shutting everyone up instead of the trouble maker who caused the problem in the first place. It has put a pall on the server, made it uncomfortable and unfun. *****

I didn't see it that way at all, I suppose. I knew going in what the requirments and limitations on uchat were, so the whole time we were talking, I was expecting at any moment to be told to stop, so when it happened, there was no uncomfortableness on my part. What made me uncomfortable was it becoming some sort of drama, worth calling names and starting threads about, when it should have just been "heehee ok, sorry" and over with.

*****
I did not call anyone a nazi. Someone being called the "Chat Nazi" happened in an unfortunate mistell which I truly believe was a mistake. It was likely not forgiven as it was the second mistell that happened, mine being the first, that was considered insulting. The reference was to the Seinfeld character "Soup Nazi" not to the historical political party. I have zero problem with that person saying such a thing in a private conversation, mistakes such as this one can be awful and irremediable, that's the hard part of life.
*****

I only barely remember the screen name of the person who made the Nazi comment, and I did not mean to imply that I thought you were they. I remember someone (you?) at the time describing the situation as a mistell, and that very well may be. What got my blood up was that you made a post that seemed very much to be a 'railing against unfair authority and restriction of speech' type of thing, but avoided actually stating the event in question. Seemed disingenuous. And yeah, someone calling me a Nazi in a private conversation wouldn't be a big deal to me, and heck, this isn't a big deal to me either. What IS a big deal is the idea that this is some issue about our basic freedoms or something, when it clearly isn't. Everything the CSR did in public to reprimand the person was appropriate, I don't know what happened in private.

****** I have nothing at all, and I mean at all, against our CSR last night, I sure the heck wouldn't have wanted to have been in his shoes, but he had a job to do enforcing the will of the devs and it was that will to which I was objecting. *****

The post of yours that provoked my response made it seem to me that you very much did have a problem-

******The Prime Roots hath no fury like an arbitrary authoritarian refered to by an historical name given to those famous for wanton arbitrary authoritarianism.*****

- sounds like you're calling them a Nazi all over again, or at the very least, encouraging the analogy. You say that's not what you meant, that's good enough for me. The Seinfeld references puts it in perspective too, it's really only a big issue because that's an international server.
As far as authoritarianism is concerned, yes it is certainly that. But arbitrary? That's just question of context. I don't see how enforcing a rule that was in existence long before this particular occaision to enforce it can be considered arbitrary- unless the rule is generally ignored, and then the particular instances of it's application can be random, I suppose.

"Intellectualism" works for me. And certainly, I don't have any problem with it per se, it was mostly the idea that we could have a diatribe on free speech that simulatneously avoids stating what the restricted speech in question was.

As to your statement about domineering nature there at the end, as well as your statement about authority rising from justice in pages previous, I disagree on both counts. But there's got to be a more appropriate corner of the internet for a conversation like ~that~. [no italics, either?]

All in all, you seem like good stuff. I hope I haven't put you off too much.

[d29565]

For those that play only on Arispotle and have taken the time to read this thread or those on Cho that just weren't around:

Last night someone called a CSR a name in universe. That's where all the "nazi" references are coming from.

[soulsnatcher]

OK seriously guys it's time to take notice of the rules, they apply to everyone and there are no cases where a rule does not apply to a certain player because they may not like it. If you abuse the rules or abuse players or CSRs you will get taken to task for it. Some leeway was given with universe to see how it would go. We've seen how it would go and it doesn't go anywhere good. We gave an inch and a mile was taken. We've learned. Now it's the turn of the few who affect the many to learn. Play by the rules and there is plenty of fun to be had in game. Don't abuse players or CSRs and there is plenty of fun to be had in game. Choose the abuse route and there probably won't be as much to be had.

Souls

[d29565]

Well said Souls.

[ashling]

I don't want to hear your opinions on which CSR's suck when I'm trying to decide if I still want to pay money for your game

You know what's kinda funny? Most of us would tell you how excellent the customer service in Ryzom is and say it is one of the strengths of this game. I've never seen a better CS in any MMO and I've played alot of them. I find it kinda ironic then to see how little it took to turn some of us againts them and I hope the CSR targeted by this behaviour know how much most of us appricated the work they do for us.