FKC, welcome Melinoe !!!

[lathan]

Ok, just a couple of points to raise here.

Unfortunatley, there seems to have been so much harm done, that some of us want to make it clear to Nexus that we don't consider them allies any more, no matter what their fame window says, they are our enemies (the Karavan's in general, not the KA's).

Just out of interest, which non-KA Karavan guilds have declared Nexus "the enemy"?

I'm not sure I believe you were declared 'kos' and enemies BEFORE you attacked Karavan guilds.

Why not, they wouldn't be the first killed for helping kara mostly, but sometimes also their kami friends...

[raven41]

Everyone should stop arguing now...Pointless really... Show up,fight and move on with your lives.

[grimjim]

IC: We can do without these fanatics, on either side. Hopefully these events may wake up a few more people to the dangers.

OOC: Any chance people can start considering the good of the server and balance as well as their own interests at all?

[threbus]

Yeah, sorry that was a bit off the cuff.. point I was trying to make is that we are still not 'over' the fact that rather than trying to resolve what Nexus felt was an injustice in the Lakelands diplomatically, they went out and attacked not with like minded tryker guilds but with an alliance of Kami.

There were serveral like minded Tryker guilds.

The Karavan faction (not KA) should be working together not divisivly. Don't we see that if we fight amonst ourselves we are weaker as a faction?

I would love the have a united Karavan faction, but for me and some other Trykers the Tryker virtues come first and the Karavan second and if the KA doesn't folow the Tryker virtues, I see myself forced to fight the KA on certain ocasions, I ofcourse won't randomly attack the KA.

If Nexus truly is a Karavan guild, then their methods and past behaviour mean there is a great deal of repartations due to the Karavan. They've continually allied with the opposing side in OP battles and fought Karavan (again NOTHING TO DO WITH KA -- sorry i want to seperate the KA from Karavan as people use that as a justifaction to atack some evil alliance).

Could you name any Karavan guild outside the KA they have fought against?

Unfortunatley, there seems to have been so much harm done, that some of us want to make it clear to Nexus that we don't consider them allies any more, no matter what their fame window says, they are our enemies (the Karavan's in general, not the KA's).

Also here, name a Karavan guild outside the KA that considers them enemies please, I would very much like to know if there were any.

Again, I don't think the KA is some big mystery. We cooperate with ANY Karavan guild, exchange cyrstals with them 1:1 or better when needed, help their members get gear. Some are 'tighter' than others, because in the past, we've had problems with information leaking out of our 'private' discussions prematurely.

I can't comment here as I personaly don't trade much with KA guilds. Not because I wouldn't want to, but because I have plenty of contacts outside of the KA.

And, I am not a member of KA first, I am a Karavan, and a homin, I help all homins and Karvan, I oppose Kamist aggression, or support Karavan aggression but beyond that hold no grudge against a Kamist for the error of their ways following the vile dog Ma-duk, I will befriend them and try to turn them to the true path through gentleness and friendship, except wherer they threaten my people.

Amen to that, get Kami folowers to the Karavan side through gentleness and friendship, not through war.

Threbus
(disclaimer: This is my own opinion, I don't speak for anyone but myself. If anything here is untrue please notify me of it and I can look into it.)

[aude03]

I am a bit confused, but perhaps I missed some subtleties at teh time.. you were declared enemies before then? That's a huge surprise as at the time, the whole matter was a complete shock to myself, and member of other karavan guilds.

Oh....of course it was a surprise, only people reading the forum knew that...hiding info, that's how a good propaganda works

If you had trouble negotiating with OV, you could have come to any other Karavan guild and we could have easily tried to work out a diplomatic solution.

We wanted egiros mats, Omega V owned the op producing egiros pollen. Seemed the better guild to ask

I'm not sure I believe you were declared 'kos' and enemies BEFORE you attacked Karavan guilds

First point, we were not declared KOS, we were KOS ! Then, according the the HO and the 2 guildies "guilty" of the KOS, official war was declared by OV to Nexus
Second point, and if memory is good, before that we only helped defense of the Neutral Samsara, and our friends of Atys Paladins. Loria was our first attack on a Karavan guild.

I know it will not change your feelings on Nexus, but at least you'll know a little better our history

[sx4rlet]

There were serveral like minded Tryker guilds.

I would love the have a united Karavan faction, but for me and some other Trykers the Tryker virtues come first and the Karavan second and if the KA doesn't folow the Tryker virtues, I see myself forced to fight the KA on certain ocasions, I ofcourse won't randomly attack the KA.

Very well said Threbus!

Sluggo0, a lot of Tryker guilds put Tryker values before the karavan religion, and fight against the KA regulary. Not because they dont follow the Karavan, but because the KA violates those values.
When Nexus attacked OV's OP in Loria, most Tryker guilds helped in that attack, because of that reason. It seems it is hard to accept for the KA that there is more then just black and white.

[thlau]

Minou

I am a bit confused, but perhaps I missed some subtleties at teh time.. you were declared enemies before then? That's a huge surprise as at the time, the whole matter was a complete shock to myself, and member of other karavan guilds.

.... (left out to safe space)

Let's not play dodgy politics, you chose the path of least resistance in the past, and it earned you the situation you have now. You made your bed, now you've gotta sleep in it.

originally I planned to never again state what my opinion about the Karavan Alliance is, as it always ends in more mud throwing than it did in the former threads.

First, please stop to do, as you were in a position to speak for all Karavan guilds, because you aren't, and I disbelive that that will ever be the case. If I'm honest, I don't believe that you are in the position to speak for the Karavan Alliance either, as I frequently was corrected, that the Karavan Alliance doesn't has a spokes person, that speaks for all members. So you are one of the many that always say the same. So I may assume that you only speak for yourself.

As I experienced it, the guilds that were approached by the founding guilds of the KA were selected by their size and their possible worth to the alliance, what ruled out all small guilds at that time. If I remember correctly, that was way before the outposts were reactivated again. So the first goal might have been strengthening the position of KA members during conflicts near supernodes, where there was no place for small guilds with no PR master diggers, what have might have ment that the KA had to share with weak guilds, without a big benefit for the elitist community. So in my opinion it was only about power, and not about a common believe. So I think it is now easy to try to use a common believe as an argument now that the KA has a strong position. This is not about facts, this is about how experienced it!

I remember that I was declared a enemy of the Karavan Alliance twice, as I helped a federal guild to free Whirling Stronghold from the months long occupation of a monarchistic matisian guild, that decided to influence foreign federal affairs, by taking issues in their own hands and for the own well being. I had to assume at that time, that the persons who declared me enemy spoke for the whole Alliance.

If you speak about the fact that the negotiations failed with OmegaV during that time, I rememer that the KA failed for several months to choose a federal guild as a new owner of the OP, too. And I know of atleast one big outpost less guild during that time, that could have been a good candidate for that position.

I am 100% sure that I am atleast on one KA members guilds KOS list, even if some of their members attack one of my guildies because we have similar names, instead of me.

Trini

[sluggo0]

First point, we were not declared KOS, we were KOS ! Then, according the the HO and the 2 guildies "guilty" of the KOS, official war was declared by OV to Nexus
Second point, and if memory is good, before that we only helped defense of the Neutral Samsara, and our friends of Atys Paladins. Loria was our first attack on a Karavan guild.

I know it will not change your feelings on Nexus, but at least you'll know a little better our history

I suppose i missed the KOS issue, you certainly were not openly declared among all karavan as an enemy is my point.

The first guild you helped was Samsara,

..........
I've edited this bit.

There is one grain of truth that is hard to substantiate, and a lot that was unfair in what I said here. I apologize to Samsara, I was getting carried away. Some feel they are more often on the Kami side. As you see I said later, I do not begrudge them of this. I feel a certain way about things, and like most people may tend to exaggerate things when I get passionate about them.

I realised by what I said I could have offended some who are friends. That's stupid of me to do, and I'm sorry.
..........

I like AP, a lot of the people in the guild are homins i woudl call friends, they don't do anything to make them other than a worthy oppnent on teh battelfield. However, what flag do they fly?

I think its pretty easy to see where our feelings come from, you've never done anything but help fight against the Karavan.

Is that more clear and makes it seem less personal? I'm not trying to make it so, again, Nexus actions have all been acts of aggression against the Karavan, looking like a duck and quacking like one leads one to only one logical conclusion, thus the treatment received.

If it was REALLY about trykker vs. non-trykker a diplomatic solution was available, but you didn't pursue one, and now we have the situation at hand.

Anyhow, i'm sorry not trying to attack just maybe a bit strongly stating a contrary opinion to what i saw as not fair in the first post in the thread.

I agree Redslayer, let's meet on the battlefield, may the best homins win and I as I hope I have always done will try to fight with honour and kind words if any towards all that attend.

I hope we have fun, and I hope that our discussions are taken in the funish roleplaying ish spirit I hope Genastrid and I intended, not as a big flame fest. .

We can kill each other on the battlefield and still remain friends and homins i hope ?

[kyesmith]

Very well said Threbus!

Sluggo0, a lot of Tryker guilds put Tryker values before the karavan religion, and fight against the KA regulary. Not because they dont follow the Karavan, but because the KA violates those values.
When Nexus attacked OV's OP in Loria, most Tryker guilds helped in that attack, because of that reason. It seems it is hard to accept for the KA that there is more then just black and white.

/bow
well said, its nice to see all those guilds who make decisions based on more than what god they worship

[totnkopf]

hold on so they want to own two Q250 ops?

its been done before

this is a attack out of pure spite because of nexus aiding the kami and its also about time KA admits it.

of course it is. But make no mistake: If the Kami didn't have any help to balance out the OP fights, the Kara would whine that it wasn't any fun any more. So for now, let their whining take on another form.

balance will be restored eventually

possibly. But seems doubtful at the moment Dwindling population combined with the present imbalance will make reversing things hard to do.

OOC: Any chance people can start considering the good of the server and balance as well as their own interests at all?

doubt it. Many KA believe that all the OPs must be Kara controlled and then some huge event will happen and light will shine down from above and they'll be crowned king of the server. Could it happen? there is a slim chance, sure, but it'll be the end of the server either way. No Kami means that things go back to the way they were before OPs, before Ep 1. Faction doesn't matter/ means nothing, cats are pointless, etc.