Outpost suggestion

[sluggo0]

No Outposts are supposed to be GvG, not FvF. It's the players who have made them FvF.

That's not true, re-read the quote when Ryzom loads, it's clear both Jena and Ma-Duk are looking for us to control the most op's .. they are like Spires a faction oriented game mechanic.

This also makes sense when you conisder when the karavan tp's became unavailable to kami, etc.. same patch .

[sluggo0]

But.. one thing that really sucked was the spawn camping, would almost although I know it would wreck immersion be good if there was a glowing line around the possible spawn points and extended out 200 m in all directions.

The line doesn't stop you from crossing it, but if you're on the wrong side, then it's clear to you, your fellow players and any GM that you INTENDED to spawn camp.

I was pushing the enemy forward with agroup, then realised that we were spawn camping, none of that was deliberate, it just happened as we pushed back (I only realised when we got wiped out we were that near the portal -- when you get 'into' the battle, it's not always clear as it was at say Wooky what is and isn't spawn camping due to the geography around there).

I'm sorry I did that, even without intent

[petej]

That's not true, re-read the quote when Ryzom loads, it's clear both Jena and Ma-Duk are looking for us to control the most op's .. they are like Spires a faction oriented game mechanic.

This also makes sense when you conisder when the karavan tp's became unavailable to kami, etc.. same patch .

Each Chapter since Ryzom's launch has brought its set of new features; chapter III is no exception to the rule, as it will introduce the outposts. The concept behind the outposts is to give new tools to the guilds and some exciting challenges. They give new rewards, linked to each outpost, but their arrival also brings a new dimension to GvG (Guild versus Guild), as guilds will fight to gain control of the outposts. This feature opens a new path for PvP, with fights between armies of players.

From here- http://www.ryzom.com/?page=outposts-intro

[oldmess]

From here- http://www.ryzom.com/?page=outposts-intro

Each Chapter since Ryzom's launch has brought its set of new features; chapter III is no exception to the rule, as it will introduce the outposts. The concept behind the outposts is to give new tools to the guilds and some exciting challenges. They give new rewards, linked to each outpost, but their arrival also brings a new dimension to GvG (Guild versus Guild), as guilds will fight to gain control of the outposts. This feature opens a new path for PvP, with fights between armies of players.

OK, well let's quote a bit more from that same page:

Alliances
If the NPC soldiers and guild members don't suffice to fend off against another guild's offensive, the defending guild can call allied guilds for help. The attacking guild can also be helped by other guilds in its attempt to conquer an outpost. Diplomacy becomes all important !

No, Outposts are supposed to be GvG, not FvF. It's the players who have made them FvF.

I'm really quite surprised by this attitude that the players are ruining the game by aligning along faction lines. (Maybe that's not exactly what you mean by that, Kos, but that seems to be prevailing attitude and your quote seemed the simplest launching point for my point.)

Here's how I saw the last few months:

1. Episode 2 - the gods ask us to align along faction lines and dig/fight to build temples first.
2. Fame changes force individuals and guilds to choose between neutral, Karavan and Kami. With very real effects in each choice.
3. Outposts - guilds are allowed to own and fight over these new structures. The game allows any/all to join in the fight. (See Alliances quote above)
4. Spires are coming which are purely faction vs. faction combat.

It really seems perfectly logical that guilds would choose to build their outpost alliances along faction lines. After all, we fought together in Ep2 and we're going to have to fight together in the upcoming war. Why should we treat outposts as something different when they are clearly sandwiched between such obvious intent?

[petej]

Because they are different , my main is a Kami but hes also assisted in "The New Empires" (Psykopla knoll) and "Ballistic Mystics" (Graveyard Gate) Outpost Battles ,if however either of those Guilds should try n take a Zorai OP he would be on Defence

Outposts are more complicated than just FvF , personaly I would prefer they went Guild only if FvF is the way they go through players making that choice (as they seem to be doing)

[kostika]

(Maybe that's not exactly what you mean by that, Kos, but that seems to be prevailing attitude and your quote seemed the simplest launching point for my point.)

My point was solely that Nevrax's intentions were differant from player intentions. I personally haven't expressed my opnion either way. But I think it is important to point out that players have made a decision to make things a certain way. Not whether it makes sense or not, jsut that they have.

Nothng survives contact with the players. The players make the game.

(Thanks for finding that news quote Pete. I couldn't find it)

[riveit]

... OP is a number game and there are more people on one side, and so more voices, more guilds, more interaction, and the capability to invade others. ..

If there are more Karavan aligned players, then don't they need more outposts so that outpost advantages are spread around more equally per homin? Hypothetically, suppose there were three times as many Matis as Zorai, shouldn't the Matis own a few Zorai outposts? The Legion of Atys did without that outpost content (excepting for gifts and purchases) for the last two and a half months. Why shouldn't they have a turn at ownership?

[oldmess]

Outposts are more complicated than just FvF , personaly I would prefer they went Guild only if FvF is the way they go through players making that choice (as they seem to be doing)

No surprise here, but I disagree. Making it GvG only would basically mean the larger guilds would be the only ones holding any OP's and they would hold multiples. Since smaller guilds couldn't help them or band together to overthrow them, they would have no incentive to share or work together at all. Why is that better than the current situation?

[lewalton]

How misleading, Jessie. Looks like we are in a strange world where 'friendlier' people are the ones bent on bringing destruction to people who want peace with others. I have been to 6-7 OP fights and all of them were Karavan attacking a Kami OP. There is a very insulting myth being perpetuated by certain Karavan players both here and in region chats that your success is due to (i) you are more diplomatic and (ii) you have worked harder. To this I would like to ask of an example of two Kami guilds actually going at each other since faction war has been implemented, as well as an example of any Kami guild who has specifically declined to help The Soul this weekend. There is no way to prove or disprove whether we Kami are slackers, of course, but my observation is that historically the most powerful guilds have always been Kami (Infinity, AoA, ON, CP, etc.), and that even till now, if someone might want to testify, Kami guilds are typically able to cover higher end PvE gameplay that require skills and organization to a deeper extent than Karavan guilds.

The fact being twisted is that there is no lack of unity among the Kami guilds, as is evident in the recent Kami summit and that all Kami guilds I can recognize have fought in the OP battle this weekend. Everyone was there. The fact being ignored is that OP is a number game and there are more people on one side, and so more voices, more guilds, more interaction, and the capability to invade others. Have a walk on the newbie islands and notice that before anything else ingame could happen, more new players choose Matis to be their race. This is fed through a positive feedback system that makes the strong side stronger, which is the wrong of Nevrax and a serious oversight in their supposedly perpetual 'player created content.' Trash talks trying to suggest that one side deserves to win because somehow collectively the players are better people by statistical means... are the wrong of the community, and are what that will drive players away. If you could somehow look at the Kami faction as a whole distantly as if it was a conscious entity... you are probably part of the problem, and are helping to bring an end to the game. Quite objectively, the majority of Kami players will unsubscribe rather than join Karavan, and Nevrax has never prepared any materials for the hypothetical worlds where one faction has wiped out the other.

Where did the Kami go wrong? The mess we had before the FvF went into effect. The alliances that were for not. The way the strong Kami guilds looked down at the smaller Kami guilds. It drove peeps away from the Kami. The only place the Kami can lay blame is on themselves. The kami drove peeps to the Karavan. I remeber when karavan peeps feared the Kami....not anymore.

[oldmess]

My point was solely that Nevrax's intentions were differant from player intentions. ... But I think it is important to point out that players have made a decision to make things a certain way.

Fair enough. Others seem to be launching off your initial point to state that this state of affairs is a bad or surprising thing.

My point is that the player's decision to do this is perfectly logical within the game we've been given by Nevrax and the plans they have for the game. The decision to ally along faction lines was not made in a vacuum or in defiance with what appear to be Nevrax's plans.