Ryzom

richky wrote:Actually, it's not as simple as that . The mutual war thing is actually placing a great deal of trust in another guild. There is always the possibility that one or other of the guilds could decide to attack an undefended outpost. There is also the fact that the pact itself creates resentment amongst other guilds, and increases the likelihood of a strongly coordinated attack should the mutual agreement fail to be renewed for any reason. All far more interesting possibilities than perpetual attacks just because people are bored and want to attack someone.

You make a good case, however, most guilds will not opt for that possibility. Too risky especially when it involves a lvl 250 outpost. Also, a guild holding a 250 outpost can easily have one guild with that mutual agreement and share it's benefits with other guilds. Since this has become quite FvF, the only guilds that would most likely become resentful would be opposing factions that want to take an outpost which is ALREADY the case.

Example: A Kami guild creates a mutual agreement with another Kami guild to "Declare war" and not actually attack. That same Kami guild holding the OP may just share with a certain number of Kami-aligned guilds. In that scenario (one of the most likely ones)...why would any Kami guild want to ruin such a nice arrangement? If a Kami guild does decide to take over, they would need a large support from the other guilds. This may never be the case unless the guild holding the OP is seriously making the wrong decisions.

In short, it's really a stagnant way to keep the OP without much conflict or "rp" unless the guild that owns the OP wants it that way and causes some ruckus (again why would any guild risk doing that to lose their OP?) or a great deal of kami guilds decide they don't like that they're not getting enough and find a way for the mutual agreement to be broken (seems unlikely again since the guild clicking "Declare war" to keep their allies safe would be getting major benefits...unless they want to risk it all for a good RP time) or get lucky and get a chance to hit that "Declare war" button. lol

richky wrote:As a note, no, I don't know that one of the outposts in a multiple declaration situation will be attacked, nor that the others won't be. That might have been the case in some instances, but there is no way of knowing on any particular occasion whether that will be the case.

Actually, it is a very high likely hood if it's the same guild attacking a bunch of others. That or they're seriously bored

So by the outpost owners maneouvering (sp?) and diplomacy, you are unable to attack it. Excellent work on Nevraxs part, although I doubt they envisaged so much depth when they came up with the system.
You cant attack that outpost for the time being, get over it, If you want to fight, attack some other outpost.

iwojimmy wrote:So by the outpost owners maneouvering (sp?) and diplomacy, you are unable to attack it. Excellent work on Nevraxs part, although I doubt they envisaged so much depth when they came up with the system.
You cant attack that outpost for the time being, get over it, If you want to fight, attack some other outpost.

Rotf. More like too lazy to actually want to deal with the problem. It's hardly takes any thinking to ally with a guild to "declare war" and keep other guilds from attacking. There is no depth in that. Heck, I was wondering if that was gonna be a problem the first day it went live.

The problem I have is that there won't be any outpost to attack because people will rely on this exploit/"tactic" as a crutch to keep their OP.

Individual flowchart to determine if it's an exploit or not:

1, Did you invent it ?
....Yes – go to 4
....No – go to 2
2, Do you or your friends benefit from it ?
....Yes – go to 4
....No – go to 3
3, Yep, it's an exploit
4, Not exploit, just cleaver tactics

thats is based on previous very similar threads in this forum.

and this one is for Nevrax:

1, Do fanboy invent it ?
....Yes – go to 4
....No – go to 2
2, Do fanboys benefit from it ?
....Yes – go to 4
....No – go to 3
3, Yep, it's an exploit
4, Not exploit, just cleaver tactics

(used fanboy because aggro dragging in FvF area is legit)

I'm a neutral, not defending this tactics and not crying exploit either.

About denying other access to OP...
what about denying them access to it if they dont want to fight over it and they were just lucky to get it in first place ?
what about denying them access because you are bigger and stronger ?
think hard before you answer

Nevrax, just put up attack queue. if it's canceled, then another guild gets the chance. can be long wait for some (max 24 hours per guild to cancel?) but it would give them a chance.

blaah wrote:Nevrax, just put up attack queue. if it's canceled, then another guild gets the chance. can be long wait for some (max 24 hours per guild to cancel?) but it would give them a chance.

Top idea Blaah. I think best suggestion to fix this yet.

nialld wrote:Having read this thread in it's entirety all I can say is:

Stop Atys. I want to get off.

Nail

Well said!


kostak yer being a bit hypocritical here.


Ghuiss
(I want my MTV)


about to challenge all outposts in true mayhem style

Blaah wrote:Nevrax, just put up attack queue. if it's canceled, then another guild gets the chance. can be long wait for some (max 24 hours per guild to cancel?) but it would give them a chance.

drcole22 wrote:Top idea Blaah. I think best suggestion to fix this yet.

I also think this is the best idea I have seen so far.

I like the queue idea (maybe the queue should clear if someone is successful at taking the outpost), also how about the same guild not being able to attack the same outpost more than once per week? These won't completely remove all types of questionable behaviour: false wars to harass outpost owners, false wars to prevent real ones, false wars as a diversionary tactic. (Regarding the latter, what's going to happen soon: every karavan guild declares on a kami outpost at the same time every kami guild declares on a kara one and noone shows up? Ridiculous!)

The cost is also currently way too low to attack an outpost, it should be outpost-level dependant and in the tens of millions for a q250 one. There is no game mechanic to make you actually think hard about attacking someone and not everyone thinks or wants to accept the potentially dire consequences of their actions.

There should be a cooloff period after the attack as well - after thwarting an attack someone else can declare war on you straight away. This could be right after the initial 24 hour period so you could potentially have to be fighting every 24 hours. It's bad enough that battles aren't restricted to weekends (see Lineage 2) and that we have players from such a wide range of timezones.

Outposts were a bit rushed out and obviously have a few teething problems, I hope Nevrax can come up with some solutions to keep everyone happy.

blaah wrote:
About denying other access to OP...
what about denying them access to it if they dont want to fight over it and they were just lucky to get it in first place ?
what about denying them access because you are bigger and stronger ?
think hard before you answer

Nevrax, just put up attack queue. if it's canceled, then another guild gets the chance. can be long wait for some (max 24 hours per guild to cancel?) but it would give them a chance.

If you don't plan on defending an outpost, you (speaking in general terms) shouldn't have gotten one simply because of the mechanics of the new content (it's been more than clear that people WILL attack if ya got the right goodies). That or you ally yourself with guilds to defend it when you don't really want to (I'm sure if ya give them goodies they'd be more than happy to).

Nope, if they're a small guild and are willingly to fight for it...more kudos to them. Just means they have to allies they can trust to come to their aid. Just means you get to RP more.

I do like that idea alot. Oo; Pretty excellent

EDIT: Excellent ideas from ya too Rashan...though I do like that cooling-off period especially. As for this comment: (Regarding the latter, what's going to happen soon: every karavan guild declares on a kami outpost at the same time every kami guild declares on a kara one and noone shows up? Ridiculous!)....kinda makes me think of the idea of "cry wolf"....which isn't too good at all. :/

ambika wrote:If you don't plan on defending an outpost, you (speaking in general terms) shouldn't have gotten one simply because of the mechanics of the new content (it's been more than clear that people WILL attack if ya got the right goodies). That or you ally yourself with guilds to defend it when you don't really want to (I'm sure if ya give them goodies they'd be more than happy to).

yes, but you forget that homin should only have 1 bag, 3 packers, 1 mount, apartement and guild vault for storage. merchant storage was "invented" by players.

same thing here (more or less), keeping your outpost out of reach from other so you dont need to defend it.
game mechanics allows it, why not use it ? (same question and answer for storage)

btw, still no word from nevrax (or i missed it).