Ryzom

Until such time as Mobs/NPCs are lowered in power, healing should certainly not be.

Mobs already lowered in power, healing - no... (~week after patch 1)

Comparing Healing to Elemental power is foolish

Agree, healing should be compared with Player HP/Mob Dmg.

Many your agruments seem (although it is difficult to decipher your method of writing) to operate from the assumption that in a fighter vs. elementalist fight, the fighter is at a disadvantage. So what? Look at any of the polls, read the forums, speak to your fellow players in-game, only a tiny minority actually WANT PvP

Actually i meant PvE. About PvP duels (Melee vs Ele, Ele vs Ele, Melee vs Melee) there was another threads.
In PvE Figthers aren't so useful/effective as Elems.

The rest are self-defeating, and fall apart when scrutinized

There's not self-defeating, and can you pls, point - what falled when scrutinized?

But anyway, i explained my PoV of current IG situation and upcoming changes, and im done here, another way this will fall soon to flame, and like you stated (a little too early), to self-defeating

this is the 2nd massive thread about the subject . All the arguments have been made i think. They are reducing a lot of the 'nerfing' to magic and still ppl dont like it. pfft it's ok, dont worry. Magic is overpowered and Gooooooooooooooo Booster, what he says is wise

The only way you will ever get rid of Mages having an advantage from lvling Melee is ofc to give them the same Health (by increasing Mages or reducing Melees to be exactly the same) , cant imagine any Melee being happy with that tho even if their credit use was adjusted so they could still use the same actions as before and their Armour was adjusted to compensate for the reduction in Health stat

No, what Booster says is not wise, and it is sad that anyone believes so.

If you currently ever die because your healer couldn't keep up, that isn't just going to happen twice as often because healing will be at half strength, it will be a very frequent occurence. This is much like the supposed "boon" of 5x health 5x XP mobs, which still give the same XP per hour to a group (no benefit at all, there) and are actually worse, because most can no longer solo them.

And, much more importantly, look at how many people never make it past their free trial/first month simply because this game is so ridiculously mob-favored. That will certainly not improve as the pre-doublespell levels attempt to advance.

I would be in support of the proposed nerf to healing, ie. halving it, making it equal to elemental, if, and only if, Mob/NPC melee,ranged, and special attacks/spells, were also reduced in power by the same proportion.

Failing that, as well as Booster's one good point (the increase in max absorption), an increase in melee's damage output to be comparable with Mob's/NPC's without stam use (so as to level the playing field) and the introduction of a "Standard Nuke Action" which would be comparable to the melee's Basic Attack Stanza, a freebie. Also put in the ability to acivate your electric/waving/burning/living weapon by using up sap, for an extra burst of power. Also...

Bleh. Either one would be a large step towards balance, ie. equality on either side of a conflict, but halving healing AND Mob/NPC power seems simpler.

I too am getting tired of this debate, and it's 4 A.M. here. The nerf will likely come no matter how many put up good arguments against it, and the folly will only be recognized in hindsight by most.

OOC:

i see very simple solution(s):
remove double _ele_ spells and give mages ability to dodge/parry attacks while casting.

.. or remove double ele spells and take away ability to dodge/parry from melee while they are fighting.

simple
what you mean it's a nerf... it's perfectly balanced then.

If I recall correctly you get -50 range credit and -100 time credit as lvl160 mage (or somewhere around that level, don't have SoR here, so can't check).

This means you can use a 140 credit single nuke which will still reach to about 20-25m for free, although slower then usual (~5-6s refire time with a good amp).

So that mages can't cast when they don't have Sap left is simply not true. They just loose effectiveness as melee does without Stam.

Also, you can use semi-free (eats only weapon Sap load) enchantments to finish the kill which can be cast instantly - and enchantments do get amp bonuses.

The PvE advantage that Mages have is down to the mobs they choose to fight and their resistances to types of damage , what Melees realy need is Great Frippos or something else that resists magic like a Kipucka resists Melee but has low health maybe plants -that always used to be a favorite for Melees to abuse maybe itl be the same when Melees get magic resists on their armour

Another comment:

Elemental is too weak compared to melee below lvl 50, it should be buffed in that range. I still remember how much easier it was to level melee then elemental (well, offensive magic to be precise ) on the first levels.

After lvl 50 it gets about equal to melee with comparable equipment and above lvl 100/125 it goes up like a rocket (wee doublemissiles).

holina wrote:If I recall correctly you get -50 range credit and -100 time credit as lvl160 mage (or somewhere around that level, don't have SoR here, so can't check).

This means you can use a 140 credit single nuke which will still reach to about 20-25m for free, although slower then usual (~5-6s refire time with a good amp).

So that mages can't cast when they don't have Sap left is simply not true. They just loose effectiveness as melee does without Stam.

Also, you can use semi-free (eats only weapon Sap load) enchantments to finish the kill which can be cast instantly - and enchantments do get amp bonuses.

Never said they couldn't cast without sap. But their casting is severly hampered if they only use range/time credits, to the point where it is fairly useless (Half damage, twice as slow as a 2H weapon, and lack of range+ Mob resists, interuption of spells, and lack of protection for the caster= dead mage.) Whereas, a fighter can still tank, and dish out a signifigant amount of damage without using any stamina or health credits. I am not at all saying that fighters are comparable to Mobs/NPCs (tho they should be). I am just tired of melees whining about mages being too powerful and wanting them to be nerfed, rather than asking for their own abilities to be enhanced.
I have nothing else to say in this thread.

OOC:

thebax wrote:I am just tired of melees whining about mages being too powerful and wanting them to be nerfed, rather than asking for their own abilities to be enhanced.

off-topic : baxter you where talking about heal being half-ed, when booster was talking about improved melee resistance... you fighted each other on different battlefield... (some cross-arguments, but meaningless) good luck!

on-topic :
i'm against balancing SOLO VS MOB . darn, go play kotor or dungeon siege if you want to solo. We're not a "great community" because we go alone nuking jugula in highgrove....
From a TEAM VS MOB (PvE) point of view, nevrax' balancing issue is understandable, AND still need adjustments.
In a team :
- 2H is the tank. Give him max protection... it relieve the healer
- Nukers are the damage dealers. Easy to understang through RP/Lore : no real energy limit when no solid objects are involved. MUST be more powerful than a melee. Just give meleers some resistance... => jewels.
- Healers sustain tank and reload the nukers...

Because of the serious healing, nukers do serious damage w/o downtime, and can "tank" a bit. So Meleers => go home. Issue!
reducing healing and improving tank resistance just balance the teamwork.
Now, HOW MUCH, that's the question.

thebax, i "/agree" with the fact a "below 100" magician dude is not a strong support (both heal and nuke... only in affliction, maybe?) thus, a cutdown of single missile power is a NO NO, not even 10%.
Above, well, i dunno. The only trouble i know is the how-boring switching required when you heal a team, and the fact a big nuker kill so fast that meleers dont even have time to hit the mob.... was said many times, sorry to repeat.

- boring heal-switch => bomb-heal improved.
- avoiding solo => double missile very costly, healers unable to sustain (halfed)
- avoiding "useless little healers" => do not reduce healing upgrade until level 100.

To give a blunt feedback : increase by 25% sap and stam heal (and gives more credit for melee/ele to encourage using those, instead of HP credit), reduce efficency HP healing by 25% above level 100, or "lower" the rate of upgrade. And increase a bit the cost of double missile, so make solo/duo magic not that easy, so team recruit meleers more, and supreme amps would not be that expensive, dam**t ....