pvp ideas, issues, concerns, questions (Merged Thread)

[plarfman]

I would B that friend who did research before the game was released. Ive read all the creator interviews and comments on what they where aiming for with this game. I try not to reply on the PvP is good/Bad threads mainly because it just goes back to the whole side slandering insults and I dont exactly see many suggestions on fixing there worrys over PvP. Usualy the solution to fixing a problem with PvP lets say in the root sence that seems to b the target at the moment is to Just not have any PvP.....I dislike this mind set. Lets face it harvesting as stands in the PR is not a walk in the park for most people what with the patrols. The argument is with PvP it will make it harder....and? People are not going to b skipping around the PR looking for a lone harvester to gank with ease you will most likely spot them on your radar and have time to act accordingly or at least so was my experience messing around on the ATS. As josephm points out and its very very hard to argue against it this game was created with the idea of PvP, GvG,ect in mind. The environment not just visualy but mechanicaly both together suite a PvP world. Now you can all ***** and moan and complain about how PvP will destroy this game but your words are hollow because well PvP is already on its way its first stop being the ATS so sit tight.

[madnak]

Left hand, right hand.

Or maybe they're trying to create conflict. I can see this story going good places. Time will tell, but making matis and tryker hate each other but be karavan, making zorai and fyros hate each other but be kami, it seems like they're trying to get some pull going in different directions to create a robust role play environment.

[sk8rss]

Or maybe they're trying to create conflict. I can see this story going good places. Time will tell, but making matis and tryker hate each other but be karavan, making zorai and fyros hate each other but be kami, it seems like they're trying to get some pull going in different directions to create a robust role play environment.

After reading the posts before this one that's exactly what i was going to say. Maybe pvp is coming in as another obstical to overcome on our way to unity!

[xcomvic]

Tetra, thank you for such an informative view on PvP from your personal views.

I know to some (neo, xcon, for instance), its just another person nagging about there concerns, but think about it this way, you pay your $15 a month to play the game the way you see fit.

By design, this game was ment to have open PvP from day 1, actually, and the last day of open beta was open pvp on all lands, including newbie area, so your friend in your group was your enemy also, could target to kill them but couldn't target to heal them.

The biggest flaw that I *hope* they are working on is the mass damage (AE) spells that will hit your allies.

Pros' and Cons' alike, neither will stop them from putting the PvP into the system, there putting to much coding effort into it to stop now.

The main concern of most is the 'open pvp in pr' with greivers.
I get online during lunch, spend like 20 minutes getting to my harvest spot, spend another 20 harvesting and log off to get back to work.

Do I want to get there and die to a pvp greiver? No.
Will it happen, I know it will.

There is this thing called your enemy list, each greiver can go on this list and you will know who they are on radar I think (red dot maybe)

So if they gave us an unlimited sized friends / enemies lists.
All people we know won't kill us can be friends.
All people we know will kill us can be enemies.
Red dots = enemies
Green dots = friends
Brown dots = unknowns

This will atleast help to understand who is around you when you go somewhere, so you can decide to stay or leave.

I would imagine at this rate, that more than the PR will be pvp area's, just do not know which and when.

Everyone is allowed to voice there concerns in any fassion they see fit provided its within reason, and I think you did a fine job voicing all of your concerns.

first off.. it's X C O M... next is if anyone wants a 15 dollar/month game without PvP get Horizons or something else that didn't advertise PvP, GvG since the beginning and on the BOX you bought... if you DLed it... oh well your loss, should have read about it in reviews or something. So in closing: if you can't handle PvP, GvG, then go find another game. I mean, like Zum said, they are implenmenting it as we speak, nothing you can do about it except whine...

[xcomvic]

good idea on merger btw... too many of these threads...

[josephm]

I'm not glad about it....but I predicted it, in the first lines of the first post on this new merger thread. Now it's just bigger! lol I don't think anyone's going back to environmental issues now.

Zumwalt, I see Tetra as someone who pays 15 dollars for the game. The things is, I was pointing out that Tetra wasn't seeing me as someone who also pays 15 dollars for the game....then Tetra replied adding words to my post instead of giving a straight answer. Instead of answering my question straight, it tried to prove that I am not my own person but an extrension of Tetra.

Btw I'm a harvester. I cannot KILL YOU. I expect my guild mates to PROTECT ME while I'm in the roots and to HEAL THEM. If you harvest you know it can be incredibly BORING at times. Especially in the ROOTS when you find your niche and CANNOT move more than 5-10 meters for an EXTENDED PERIOD of time. what I want is EYE CANDY and EXCITEMENT...not just to KILL YOU.

And Tetra I appreciate your passion, I really really do. I feel the exact same way, only on the opposite side of the spectrum. Plarf is right though. PvP is coming. just sit tight, and you have some very good ideas about PvP. They just don't suit what a bunch of us want IN pvp.

Maybe because we see pvp as something we want, that we should dictate the rules of it. I dunno, each person has an opinion and none are the exact same. One thing that is fairly common among the pvpers though, is that we don't want 'limitations' on Pvp. Limitations take the fun, and alot of the basic principles that this game follows.

Compass identification so you can see someone coming as a friend or not 5x the distance before they can begin to cast a spell on you: You may not be prepared for a swarm, but it helps even out the one on one. It limits ambushes to a degree, but in the pr, if I'm trying to get by the cutes I'm going to be using a 'concentrated awareness' AKA 50 meter compass. I'll get creamed if someone manages to sneak in on me during that. That balances a limited ambush with an increased awarness, and a choice. Do I die to mobs, or do I die to players? At least players don't rack up the DP!

I think Zumwalt's compass idea is just smashing. we already see blue as a non group and purple as grouped. Giving us more compass options is a grand idea.

I'm against the PvE agro ones though. Cutes lie down and you walk on top and die. They seem to do this for a reason. Some mobs are camoflauged as well. Has to be a reason. Besides, I'm all for making games harder the more I progress in them. I've learned to identify lots of camoflauged mobs.

Given that Nevrax has had a while since beta to fix things I'm sure the AOE will run pretty smoothly, except for the occaisional glitch.

[tetra]

I'm not glad about it....but I predicted it, in the first lines of the first post on this new merger thread. Now it's just bigger! lol I don't think anyone's going back to environmental issues now.

Zumwalt, I see Tetra as someone who pays 15 dollars for the game. The things is, I was pointing out that Tetra wasn't seeing me as someone who also pays 15 dollars for the game....then Tetra replied adding words to my post instead of giving a straight answer. Instead of answering my question straight, it tried to prove that I am not my own person but an extrension of Tetra.

Btw I'm a harvester. I cannot KILL YOU. I expect my guild mates to PROTECT ME while I'm in the roots and to HEAL THEM. If you harvest you know it can be incredibly BORING at times. Especially in the ROOTS when you find your niche and CANNOT move more than 5-10 meters for an EXTENDED PERIOD of time. what I want is EYE CANDY and EXCITEMENT...not just to KILL YOU.

And Tetra I appreciate your passion, I really really do. I feel the exact same way, only on the opposite side of the spectrum. Plarf is right though. PvP is coming. just sit tight, and you have some very good ideas about PvP. They just don't suit what a bunch of us want IN pvp.

Maybe because we see pvp as something we want, that we should dictate the rules of it. I dunno, each person has an opinion and none are the exact same. One thing that is fairly common among the pvpers though, is that we don't want 'limitations' on Pvp. Limitations take the fun, and alot of the basic principles that this game follows.

Compass identification so you can see someone coming as a friend or not 5x the distance before they can begin to cast a spell on you: You may not be prepared for a swarm, but it helps even out the one on one. It limits ambushes to a degree, but in the pr, if I'm trying to get by the cutes I'm going to be using a 'concentrated awareness' AKA 50 meter compass. I'll get creamed if someone manages to sneak in on me during that. That balances a limited ambush with an increased awarness, and a choice. Do I die to mobs, or do I die to players? At least players don't rack up the DP!

I think Zumwalt's compass idea is just smashing. we already see blue as a non group and purple as grouped. Giving us more compass options is a grand idea.

I'm against the PvE agro ones though. Cutes lie down and you walk on top and die. They seem to do this for a reason. Some mobs are camoflauged as well. Has to be a reason. Besides, I'm all for making games harder the more I progress in them. I've learned to identify lots of camoflauged mobs.

Given that Nevrax has had a while since beta to fix things I'm sure the AOE will run pretty smoothly, except for the occaisional glitch.

By editing your post to add those words in originally, I had hoped you would be able to see why it is important that the folks laying down as many ground rules as possible are those very ones who do not particularly have an interest in the sudden change of course with PvP that nevrax has started. Yes both the victim and the killer pay 15$ a month, however only one of those two is being forced to become the victim under the other's desired playstyle. You wanted to try and play the poor oppressed why is your playstyle more important to the point of overriding my playstyle card, I put in the words that you left out; namely that with the omitted parts put back in, your entire little rant boiled down to "why is your playstyle where you make the bits on the server your victim and you don't allow me to force you into being my victim, more important than my playstyle where I force you my victim"

Yes Nevrax has always said that there was a lot of ambitious things they wanted to do with PvP, but as Thanakar said and as my single quote from a single devchat stated (there are lots of others if you go look), none of those were ever open season unrestricted pvp... it was always PvP with a purpose, fights over outposts, guild battles, so on and so forth. It was never open season on folks that don't want to be participating in PvP, but suddenly it becomes just that and a handful of folks start shouting about how PvP is listed on the box so it must have obviously meant the unrestricted rubbish being put on ATS. Open unrestricted PvP was never planned, the few times it was done in beta it was done as a fun light hearted thing that was never pawned off as serious.

15$ from one person is the same as 15$ from someone else, neither party is paying for anything special to allow them to clobber the other over the head with a stick and force them to play the victim for their little game. But if either of those parties wants to force the other to play the victim, then it makes complete logical sense that the planned victims should be the most important ones when it comes to listening to things like ground rules for you want to kill them indiscriminately.

I must say though, that It doesn't supprise me that the whole previously loudly cheered for "consider the concequences of your actions before doing something" line hasn't sprung up even once from any of the OMGPVPROX! crowd suddenly when it's suggested that they actually might have to consider the concequences of their actions against others.... Pathetic. You can talk about "wanting in on pvp" all you want, but you all seem to have this massive hangup with trying to discredit belittle and be intentionally obtuse towards anyone who tries to bring up the fact that they don't want to be your victim and that if you want to make them your victim, then you should have to suffer actual concequences that make an actual impact beyond needing to make a new shopping mule sometimes.

[lyrah68]

The idea of having OPEN free style western gun slinger PVP is not that attractive to me. I don't like PVP without consent.

LOCALIZED pvp like fighting over outposts, yes, that would work. Another server, great, have a HUGE mosh pit...go for it. For me, I do NOT enjoy being bullied, or manipulated by anyone else. Been there...done that...found a way out and did the recovery sessions. I don't NEED it, don't want it.

From what I have seen of the test server, basically there are arenas for the free for all. You can have group on group(with a consent thing), and you can have faction against faction(with a faction selector upon zoning in, add immunity with choice of neutral and I am ALL for it) or guild wars(add that ONLY those in opposing guilds can attack you and I am ALL for that) in the prime roots.

I personally would like it like the faction based areas on the ATS at the moment. BUT I would like the Neutral button to make you PVP immune, same rules, if you are immune, you can't attack OR be attacked, and you can't change that until you zone out and back in. (to avoid exploiters).

There just ARE people that chose to stay OUT of wars as much as possible. I mean if it doesn't involve me, I don't GET involved.

I do not think that one group of players should be allowed to MAKE another group of players play THEIR way, it isn't right. If you want to pull the wings off grasshoppers in game so to speak, then I hear the Zeks in EQ have PLENTY of room for you...bubye now, have fun.

So far this game has gone OUT of its WAY to INCLUDE as many player types as possible...more than any other game I have ever seen or heard of. And I think the PVP issue is a stand or fall kinda issue. If they force the peaceful players to PVP...against our wishes, then they are VERY likely to lose a great number of us.

I am NOT your whipping post, I don't WANT that job and will NOT take it. If you want to abuse someone...go find someone more willing K thanks.

Short story version:
I want immunity, I am not ever going to agro another player for ANY reason other than an IN arena friendly brawl. I will NOT take non Concentual as anything but what I feel it is, something I am not interested in and do NOT want. PERIOD.

To me it is like sex without consent.

[xcomvic]

Can everyone please state their ingame Character names in the sigs or in a post

[zzeii]

Can everyone please state their ingame Character names in the sigs or in a post

What does this have to do with the thread? Just curious....

I'd wish they'd wait to add the 'guild pvp' in the roots til when it had an actual purpose. Y'know...outposts...something to actually fight over...otherwise...why would someone go kill another character under the current system? I mean if someone really want to have a big brawl...there is the arena, just bring some friends...Want some group on group action...there is the pvp challenge...just need to get some friends together for that too...wanna have some one on one action, they do have the duel for that...just need a friend to do that with as well...

Hrmmm....no consequences either...

Personally, they should have consequences for killing in the 'guild pvp' in the roots...I mean killing random harvesters has no benefit for someone, game-wise speaking...beyond their personal enjoyment, and the unenjoyment of the victim...they pay the same...but the victim can't enjoy it like they are...I'm sure if the person getting killed knew that the killer was going to have the same amount of 'unenjoyment' as them, they probably enjoy it...now both parties are happy...right?

Hrmmm...consequences...not a bad idea...still have open pvp, yet have a downside to it as well...

Both types of people pay to play. Whether its non-pvp or pvp, both sides should be able to get equal enjoyment out of both aspects...right? It's not 'by design wholy and unfathomly pure pvp everywhere tra-la-la', nor does it seem to be 'omgwtfrz get that stupid <insertfoullanguagehere> pvp stuff out of the game'. It's a balance, that requires taking both sides into account. HAVING open pvp in areas is a balance in the pro-pvp corner, HAVING consequences to unfettered killing of indirect-combatants is a balance for the non-pvp platform.

Kinda funny....people talked about having an UN type thing for guilds...I could imagine them drafting up a 'Geneva Convention' type resolution for the fair treatment of harvesters and crafters in times of war >.> Most nations follow it nowadays...except...well...*coughs* the U.S. and others of a less 'friendly' regime.