Crafting/Harvesting Crisis

[ctusk]

BTW .. a vast majority of my levels have been done WITHOUT mat spec. If I was concerned about XP I would be around 120 rightnow.

Agreed. I am at level 205 now. I actually really do not want to level anymore. All it does is bring up my death penalty which gets harder and harder to work off. And I still don't get any more mats from my sources than I did at lvl 151 since my willpower based regen simply cannot cope with more than a -64 extraction plan.

My foraging was really more of an accident, what I wanted to level was my crafting.
That finally hit lvl 150 now. Does foraging level too fast? Maybe. Does it matter or "imbalance" the game ? No, not really - it simply really doesn't matter. It doesn't make a crafters life easy and at the point where you just grind you don't even look at your foraging xp anymore.

Best toy you get at lvl 200 plus is Knowlegde 3 - that's about it

What irritates me a little bit is the constant nerfing that is going on, it's the "whaaa, that person has something I don't have - punish them!" syndrome. Doesn't fly very well ...


PS: The 9000 mats turned out to be around 12000 in the end. It goes up to 20-25 combines per level sometime along the road

[jesder]

PS: The 9000 mats turned out to be around 12000 in the end. It goes up to 20-25 combines per level sometime along the road

Even better


Really.. I am not sure how you got to 205 without figuring out that it wasnt doing much for you but hey I can understand it would be possible. It is nice to know that even at 200+ you are still not getting as many mats are you really should. In reality the QTY per hour of mats should not go up greatly with level. Source time may increase the QTY per pull, but it does not greatly increase mats/hr. Speed stanza does increase this and untill we see how it is handled in the new system, it is really hard to tell what the mats/hr difference will be between levels.

I still think they need to make mat spec usefull by increasing QTY per swing of the pick by the class of mat.

[Mekos]

I still think they need to make mat spec usefull by increasing QTY per swing of the pick by the class of mat.

That would be a rather interesting use of mat specs, especially for crafter/harvesters who aren't too concerned with harvesting xp.

[shrike]

Look at mage/fighter stanzas... how many have to do with gathering materials? Everything about a fighter/mage has to do with killing.

in comparison how many forager materials have to do with gathering materials? What about a forager has to do with anything other than pulling materials out of the ground? (Extraction fyi)

Again, killing things is just a way to get their mats, just like prospecting & extraction is just a way to get foragad mats.

It is true that hunting isn't as specialized as foraging, but that doesn't means it should be useless to get mats. Foraging should be more effective, but not so much that it's the only realistic way to get mats to make items.

Since you seem to be the opinion that it should be please answer me why nevrax thought it a good idea to divide the different mat boni between quartered and foraged mats. Or ignore that issue like before....

Shrike, you are obviously very concerned with what levels other people are.. so much you even seem to have an assumption of what mine is. Your argument is silly. Those of us who are higher level already have the advantage, it is people like you insanely trying to keep other people from sharing it. Nerfing now prevents new foragers from possibly keeping up. ...

I have an assumption what you lvl is? What brings you to that funny idea - I wouldn't care less if you were lvl 20 or 250.

And "Nerfing now prevents new foragers from possibly keeping up"? Are you kidding? It is very much possible to lvl up just fine without mat spec. A lvl 100 forager can supply 99.9% of all crafters.

[svayvti]

Sorry you can't see it Shrike, but nerfing now prevents new Foragers from even remotely getting the kind of xp I did to level up. You'll especially see this in the new patch with levels 50-100. If you really aren't concerned with others levels like you say they are, why would you constantly post about it in both american and european forums? You seem to be the only one who doesn't see it.

Fighters/Mages get materials as supplemental. An extra bonus and reward, not as their purpose. That is simply the difference, the purpose of a Forager is to get mats. Why the difference? to make them something unique and to let it have some purpose. If they'd really wanted to make it balanced then there would be more variety of bonuses on quartered mats, they've got very few. When you get up to supreme grade of anything, it matters a lot less anyways.

As I've been saying for a long time in many places, the real problem with foraging is the conflict of interest between leveling and supplying mats. It is irrelevant the levels of the Forager, it is relevant how well they do their job... for those who can figure out what the job of a forager is.

[jdiegel]

Sorry you can't see it Shrike, but nerfing now prevents new Foragers from even remotely getting the kind of xp I did to level up. You'll especially see this in the new patch with levels 50-100. If you really aren't concerned with others levels like you say they are, why would you constantly post about it in both american and european forums? You seem to be the only one who doesn't see it.

Fighters/Mages get materials as supplemental. An extra bonus and reward, not as their purpose. That is simply the difference, the purpose of a Forager is to get mats. Why the difference? to make them something unique and to let it have some purpose. If they'd really wanted to make it balanced then there would be more variety of bonuses on quartered mats, they've got very few. When you get up to supreme grade of anything, it matters a lot less anyways.

As I've been saying for a long time in many places, the real problem with foraging is the conflict of interest between leveling and supplying mats. It is irrelevant the levels of the Forager, it is relevant how well they do their job... for those who can figure out what the job of a forager is.

That logic works fine if the harvester requires an escort.

[svayvti]

In many cases Foragers already do, too much in fact.

I've seen many the fighter/mage complaining about the decay rate on their, but are even you willing to stand around a forager all day just so they can do their job to supply you for another's day's play?

No, what I think you really want is to eliminate the need for foragers entirely. What would you have Foragers do for their special and unique role?

and if they shouldn't have one, then perhaps we should remove the special and unique rules of fighters/mages to kill things?

[jdiegel]

In many cases Foragers already do, too much in fact.

I've seen many the fighter/mage complaining about the decay rate on their, but are even you willing to stand around a forager all day just so they can do their job to supply you for another's day's play?

No, what I think you really want is to eliminate the need for foragers entirely. What would you have Foragers do for their special and unique role?

and if they shouldn't have one, then perhaps we should remove the special and unique rules of fighters/mages to kill things?

So, basically what I'm reading from all of your posts is that you have a problem with interdependence. Everybody depend on you, but nobody depend on me.

I already stand around in one spot all day killing the same mob over and over again. Protecting your ass while doing that for a mutually beneficial goal, assuming decay is adjusted at some point, would be a refreshing change.

[svayvti]

I have no problem with interdependence. I forage, I don't craft. I'm a mage... I don't craft.

I'm a big advocate of foraging teams, that is also interdependence. You're the one saying that Crafters should be supplied by, and supply fighters and mages.. side stepping foragers entirely.

Should Crafters likewise be forced to have to craft next to fighters and mages to require protection? or are you agains the same kind of interdependence you want to force Foragers into? Maybe you mean this kind of interdependence?

I do think Fighters and Mages should be useful to Foragers, but to make the profession worthless except in a redundant fashion? Hunters get more materials, they get supreme/excellent materials easier, don't need Foragers, but Foragers need them? is that what you want? if it isn't what do you want?

Foraging is already the most lethal profession. Rapidly leveling into high level zones, no self-protection from aggro mobs in their skill trees, dealing with extra danger of explosions and gas at the same time. To even get to 4 of their 5 skill branches they generally need the help of a group to get them through or into other lands anyways.

More dependence on other Foragers or Crafters fine, but more than they already have on fighters/mages when those can already do a good part of the job they're supposed to be doing without them?

Still sounds to me like you're just trying to get rid of Foragers entirely.

[jdiegel]

I have no problem with interdependence. I forage, I don't craft. I'm a mage... I don't craft.

I'm a big advocate of foraging teams, that is also interdependence. You're the one saying that Crafters should be supplied by, and supply fighters and mages.. side stepping foragers entirely.

Should Crafters likewise be forced to have to craft next to fighters and mages to require protection? or are you agains the same kind of interdependence you want to force Foragers into? Maybe you mean this kind of interdependence?

I do think Fighters and Mages should be useful to Foragers, but to make the profession worthless except in a redundant fashion? Hunters get more materials, they get supreme/excellent materials easier, don't need Foragers, but Foragers need them? is that what you want? if it isn't what do you want?

Foraging is already the most lethal profession. Rapidly leveling into high level zones, no self-protection from aggro mobs in their skill trees, dealing with extra danger of explosions and gas at the same time. To even get to 4 of their 5 skill branches they generally need the help of a group to get them through or into other lands anyways.

More dependence on other Foragers or Crafters fine, but more than they already have on fighters/mages when those can already do a good part of the job they're supposed to be doing without them?

Still sounds to me like you're just trying to get rid of Foragers entirely.

Ok, first, just because I didn't comment in your favor doesn't me I agreed with everyone discussing the other side of the coin up until the point that I commented. We may actually be arguing with different people.

So, first, I have never advocated allowing fighters/mages to completely bypass the need for foragers. I see a circle. Foragers depend on fighters. Fighter/Mages depend on crafters. Crafters depend on Foragers.

Now, my problem lies in that nobody seems to want to depend on fighters/mages, for the most part, except for other fighters/mages. To what end? You Forager for materials and levels. The Crafter crafts for the items created and levels. I fight for levels and...?!? So, since I see Foragers complaining about mob spawns on their sources and how that's not right, blah, blah, blah. Fine, you remove me from the circle then so you can forage with little risk. That means I have to find somewhere else in the circle. Since Foragers don't need me then that means I have to find a way for the Crafters to need me and, if that is the case, I would rather it be for something different than grinding materials.