xfluffee wrote:dictionary.com defines
currency as "something that is used as a medium of exchange; money" and
economy as "the management of the resources of a community ... esp. with a view to its productivity" and "the prosperity or earnings of a place."
Tell me, is that how the natives on your tropical island define it ? I don't see the word "official" used anywhere in this definition.
Here's another:
"Money in any form when in actual use as a medium of exchange." Money in essence has no intrinsic value other then the value of the raw material product.....you can use as paper or melt down coinage but the value of what you get is most often miniscule as compared to what it represents.
So, in the economy of Ryzom, the "official" currency is dappers. When dealing with "official" vendors and offerors of goods and services, you use dappers. However, dappers are quite meaningless in every other case (we seem to agree on that point), so the community has rejected what was handed down from the "officials" and have chosen, among other things, grind mats as a major forum of currency (remember, "something that is used as a medium of exchange; money").
So our RL corrolary would be that when I go to the "official" post office to buy stamps, I would pay in this currency. But when I bought a suit from a seamstrees I would typically pay her in what ? 2,000 yards of wool ? I'd pay for a hunting rifle with a half ton of iron ore ? Or is it more likely I'd pay in money and they would turn around and buy their own raw materials ? What type of communties does your example apply to ? Bartering systems exist but all are tied to a common "currency" as a yardstick of measuring value.
No one actually buys "official" npc made items. We may use a vendor for convenience when we first arrive to buy stuff from crafters but after that all "official" channels are bypassed via /tell to our chosen crafters. Our "official" infrastructure is pretty much a sham. Vendors are not really merchandise sellers but essentially "pawn shops" where people needing cash drop off stuff of value and obtain dappers. Then other people come in and buy the other peep's stuff. The npc's are nothing but "eye candy" serving to fill up an otherwise empty town. The system as it functions now could essentially be replaced with the folding tables you see on country lanes selling flowers, produce or baked goods. Take what ya want, put the money in the cigar box and be on ya way.
Personally, I can't be bothered. How many hi level players actually loot unless it's needed to initiate a spawn ? How many hi level players "destroy" all their mats rather than TP out or trek to a hawker ? I don't bother cause I can't spend the dappers I have, what am I gonan do with more ?
As an example (probably unnecessary), people are quite willing to bQ250 supremes (in particular, but also grind mats) at 9999% mark-up at the vendors, instead of (or in addition to) having to spend the time digging.
I'm not living in your world. I have never heard of anyone buying a grind mat for more than 500% markup. 9999% markup is simply a storage exploit used by people with full packers and apartments. Try filing a ticket on your missing mats "stored" on vendors. Will result in nice lecture about using exploits.
Even grind mats are more valuable than dappers. I've heard more than one person bemoaning this fac, I'd t, usually after their mats get purchased for 250k each and they are left with dappers and no mats.
Someone bought a grind mat for 250k ?.... and they are willing to admit it ? I have almost made a "duh purchase" once or twice from lazy clicking but the equivalent of the "are you sure" button saved me those times. I dig about 82 mats per prospect w/o any wearing any special boosted gear and have no problem digging mats at a rate of 3,000 an evening. At your suppossed prices, I could earn 750 million a day. Not gonna happen.
First off there is no "standard" rate for anything. Each deal is an individual deal. As for your prices, I can't imagine them.....I bought plenty of grind mats from vendors tho I never hired a dig slave. I'd pay up to 6k a mat. I know others who set a limit at 8k, other still 10k.
The idea that someone would intentionally or even could pay 25 times the highets number I have ever heard if is something I find incredible (as in not believable). As for sups, I never had the opportunity to discuss dappers, just never found anyone to sell any for dapper.....well not any worthwhile ones anyway. Sups for other sups, yes.....sups for cats or OP mats, yes.
It doesn't matter what the "official" currency is, if the population doesn't use it, it's worthless in the face of what the people do find value in. The purpose of this thread (and many others that I've seen) appear to be coming up with ways to bring "reality" closer to what's "official", that is, to make dappers a more relevant form of currency. Hence the poll on ways to spend dappers that have meaning to other players. There are a lot of good ideas listed in the poll, but the root problem of "dappers are worthless compared to grind mats" needs to be addressed, or the problem will just continue.
That's my whole point. If 1 grind mat is "officially" sold at a specific rate, problem solved. A standard is introduced whereas we have none now.
Right now, it is "hard" to obtain grind mats. It takes a large amount of time to dig them in any great quantity (assuming you obey the CoC). Once you do dig them, you are reluctant to let go of them because of the effort you expended.
If I am in position that I looking to buy grind mats, why in the world would I be interested in selling them ?
Grind mats are
valuable ("having considerable monetary worth; costing or bringing a high price").
Well let's look up another word in the dictionary.
Definition
"Price = The sum of money asked for or given for something"
Ok, what's the price (aka "sum of money") ?
If they were easier to obtain (walk to a vendor and buy them), their value would drop. We could discuss the degree that the value would drop, but without the information which only GF has, it would be a pointless discussion.
I hate to tell you this but that's exactly how most of us get grind mats. We walk up to vendor and buy them. And your assumption that value would drop is wholly unsupported. If people are willing to pay between 5 and 10k now for grind mats, you're saying that if after Saturday's patch vendors were selling 250QL grind mats at 15k each, the prices for looted / dug ats on vendors would drop ? I just don't see a digger or hunter saying "OH crap, now that vendors are selling this item for 15k, I will never ben able to get my usual 6k for them
The players have created their own economy and it does NOT center around dappers as the primary unit of exchange.
The players have created their own economy because the official one doesn't work past level 100.
In Ryzom, something else needs to be done. Easily available grind mats may be enough, or it may not be. But it's the best first step that I can think of without being heavy-handed about it, which is what most real life governments would do. It simultaneously attempts to reduce the value of grind mats while raising the value of dappers.
Whose government ? King whatshisname in Matis ? The Fyrosian government ? Tryker Zorai ?
We have the equivalent of a miniature "European Union" where different city states have agreed to a common currency.
There are two problems, one of which hasn't been mentioned. Yes peeps will do the dig slave thing if they really want something. I am personally uncomfortable with being or asking someone to be my dig slave. Supply and demand dicates the price in currency of any item. We have a history here with, as siad above, most people willing to pay between 5-6k for mats with a few willing to go as high as 10k for certain items. Issues:
1. Right now, it's much less of an issue of cost as it is availability. I could have 400 gazillion dapper but if the vendor has no mats, he has no mats. This is most often the case except where of course someone is violating the stated rules and storing mats on vendors. If I buy every mat on vendors in all 4 lands I can keep myself busy for 2-3 minutes....and at that I will probably still have to dig 1 or 2, since I was only able to find significant quantities of 2 on the vendors and need 4 different mats to craft.
2. Again, most peeps are buying vendor mats at 5-6k,a few going to 8 or 10 for certain mats. The community has therefore set the price. If GF was to make npc mats available at higher levels at these rates, contrary to what you said, prices actually paid would not drop. For example, lets say the official rate is set at 7.5k per mat....all those peeps making a living selling at 5-6k still have an outlet...or they could go to 7k and just undercut vendors and actually make more money. That's what happens now at npc mats up to 100. If I start a new craft skill, I sit at mat vendor and buy every player offered mat priced below what the vendor rate is....then I start buying npc mats.
3. GF could make it more intresting. Mat prices could change based upon demand. Track npc sales and adjust accordingly. Again, let's say that we started at 7.5k per mat....as time goes on, resin (1,000 units sold) sells twice as much as oil (500 units sol.....so since there is higher demand (all mats averaged 750) , so you raise the price of resin and decrease the price of oil.
4. Another alternative would be hireable npc diggers. Go down to the local union hall, hire an npc to dig for you. One rule I'd set is they only hire out to masters in respective region....and probably shouldn't allow in PR. Basically, the mimick your actions or perhaps they just cp for you. But you gotta pay for them....and if they die, you pay big time (widows and orphans fund)
.
5. Yet another alternative would be "Atys College". Let's say you mastered Diadem. Now is there really that much to "learn" grinding up the other 5 skill trees. Now if after gaining master title in a jewels skill tree, I could pay tuition to level up in another jewels skill tree. Price would have to be set "by level" with 230's of course costing more than 220's. And prolly the last few levels should be unobtainable at college. But if it costs say 500 mats w/ cats to get level 230 and let's say the going rate is 5k (for the purpsoes of example only) a mat, then it seems the value of this tuition is 2.5 million. So make it 5 million plus the cats that woulda been used or 10 million and save me the hassle of sensless digging those 500 mats which give me no xp anyway. So pay the Bursar the 5 million or 10 million and be done with it.
Not being able to buy mats at any price and digging for months on end for no xp are two "downers" that frustarte people and have them "taking a break from game".
) Once you payed the tribe, their patrols will KoS and let you know. You can of course pay multiple tribes in different regions/countries, however once your target's been dealt with, the other tribes will stop looking out for him and you don't get your money back.