Understanding each other calmly (Neutrals, Kami, Karavan)

[jennaelf]

And this is what gets me about you, in particular, GJ; and neutrals in general.

After browsing the thread, this gets me. I have found that those who've remained "neutral" (for whatever reason) are broad and varying (and certainly not classifiable under the idea of another single faction), and as such - generalizations are unfair.

Not only are such generalizations unfair, but to perpetuate them hurts the game community on a whole. New players who come in see ideas like this, see threads like this and get it in their heads that Neutrals are (fill in your choice derogatory adjective here). This also happens to the factions - I'm certainly not saying it doesn't.

Could we possibly refrain (hah, too late?) from making these kinds of generalizations in a thread where someone is actually asking why people do what they do? You don't have to agree with what someone says, but don't judge ME for the shirt someone else is wearing, hm?

[jared96]

I find it interesting that the race speople pick so often describe their personalities. I think this is because of the hints one gets on the web site and the active choice that takes place, uninfluenced, at the time of character creation.

• Matis — A proud and noble race of forest dwellers. They have mastered the art that is a fusion of botany and genetic manipulation, and consequently they have constructed their kingdom and castles from massive trees grown for that very purpose. They are closely allied with the Karavan, while their imperialistic tendencies tend to put them at odds with the other cultures.

• Tryker — A fiercely independent and hedonistic race of lake dwellers. They build large floating cities on their lakes, and networks of wind-powered water pumps around them. They are officially allied with the Karavan, though many take a neutral path or side with the Kami, which tends to distress the Matis.

• Zoraï — A spiritual and tranquil race of jungle dwellers. They build their temple-cities within naturally fortified areas of the jungle. They seek enlightenment through their close relationship with the Kami, whom they revere as the living embodiment of Ma-Duk. Zoraï are born with genetically grafted Kami masks covering their faces.

• Fyros — A tough and obstinate race of desert dwellers. They have mastered much fire technology, which they like to build into their weapons and architecture. Though not prone to religious belief (preferring to see tangible evidence where possible), they have allied themselves more with the Kami and Zoraï in recent times, a process much influenced by the friendly relationship between their rulers.

However, as was said earlier, I think for the most part, the sides people pick (Kami or Kara) kinda like RL religion choices.....accidents of birth. While certainly there are many players who examined the lore and choce race and faction accordingly....

• The Kami — The Kami are a magic-based race that are written in lore to be the protectors of Atys. They follow a being called Ma-Duk, who they believe created Atys.
• The Karavan — The Karavan are a technology-based race. It is written in the lore that they are not from the planet Atys. It is unknown who they really are or where they really come from. They follow a female being named Jena.

....most I think have gone as was said earler. .... "I met a bunch of peeps" .... or "I joined a guild that" ..... In RL, religion is for the most part "an accident of birth". When people die believing in a religion, 98% of the time it will be the religion of their parents. Ryzom mirrors RL in that respect I think more often than not.

Also like RL, the more .... shall we say "fervent" the belief, the more likely the individual is to view persons of the other faith as being less "equal" to and less "deserving" than them. But who stands on higher moral ground. A person who is a good person because they simply feel it is the right thing to do or the person who behaves well because he's afraid oif burning in hell for eternity ?

As to why I "play neutral", I play this game with my kids and my friends....real friends...people I care about. Since my kids were two, I taught my kids that:

-it's not nice to take advanatge of someone who is smaller than or weaker than you
-they should share their toys with the other boys and girls
-they should never take toys from other boys and girls

The reason I play Ryzom is the cooperative aspect, the helping of each other. I don't want any part of taking anything away from any other player nor of monopolozing the game's resources.

I had a chat with a player a while back who was a bit upset because no one would make him or sell him a particular item.....the particular item was one that someone had recently given me for free In fact I was given several of them after letting it be known I was looking) and this player said "how come no one ever gives me stuff like that ?"

......he want onto say he had something an extreme hoard of supreme mats in storage. I have a few hundred at a time and whatever I'm not using or saving to craft an item (216 mats per HA set), I give away. When I craft the item, more often than not it's given away or traded for something I need. I like helping other people ... I like other people helping me. I don't want to have an advanatge over other players, I don't wanna win anything, I don't wanna have anything that other players can't have. I don't want to participate in taking away what they do have.

Our guild helps kami friends, our guild helps kara friends, our guild halps neutral friends. One of the most amazing things about ryzom is that the community is better than the game. By that I mean the community, well for the most part, has decided to let the neutrals exist despite a game mechanic that pretty much forces it down one's throat. That is something I find tryly amazing and the reason I am still here.

[sluggo0]

oh look someone with something on-topic and constructive to say.

maybe not eh!

lol thanks jack. just about woke up at work cause of that one

I don't even think I'll bother reading any more on this one, I think I just had two days of this argument, sorry to the OP

[mrtexas]

I would think, that there is already a third faction that has been present for some time. Consumables/Consumers. Dapper, crystal, grinding mats, these things people are willing to work for and bend over backwards to acquire because they need them.

Essentially, like the Samsara mercinaries, religion is not the only faction. Its all about the consumables.

-Consumate Consumer-

[sx4rlet]

ok, why is Sxarlet neutral?

Sxarlet came to mainland and followed the karavan, as she was impressed by their technology. Rebuilding Atys again, and keeping the Kitin as far away as possible was (and is) more important to her then higher powers.

Then she heard Jena was coming, and all guilds were told to fight for the higher power they believed in. At that meeting, Sxarlet complimented Wyler for his wisdom in leading the lakelands, but criticized him for following Jena and the Karavan blindly.
Then the temple wars started. The so-called higher powers told the homins to kill other homins. Homins that helped Sxarlet to kick the Kitin out of the lakelands, that helped other homins across other lands.
Sxarlet tried to fight for the Karavan, but after a short time, she didnt believe it anymore. The higher powers were like two small kids who were fighting for their newest favourite toy. It was about power and greed.
And those were homin emotions, not something for higher powers.

From then on, Sxarlet believed might be powerful, but they werent gods, and therefore, homins should learn what they can from those powers, but had to act upon themselves to decide the way for the homins.
Sxarlet thinks that last part is a heavy burden, as she doesnt believe in a god anymore that decided for her what is good, and what isnt. She has to do it herself, for herself, but also for her guild and other friends.

-------------

So, to answer Moyaku. The RP and the lore of the game 'made' Sxarlet neutral.
For me as player, the (weak) tryton faction is the most interresting part of the lore. If you read the lore, the different races and factions say different things about the races and the other factions.

Last, being neutral gives Sxarlet the freedom to make up her own choices. Sxarlet is a tryker before anything else. That means Freedom, Equality and Sharing, and she lives up to that as good as she can.

EDIT: (so last was not last ) at this moment, neutrality is the hardest way I think (just an opinion). As player I never really went for the easiest way. For me an MMORPG is the travel of the character, it's not reaching highest level asap. Taking the road less traveled gives it a bit more special feeling.

[mrshad]

You don't have to agree with what someone says, but don't judge ME for the shirt someone else is wearing, hm?

Do you claim "moral supieriority" because of your neutrality?

Do you insist that, despite not following a faction, the faction powers should grant you the same benifts they grant their faithful?

If not, then you are certainly not the type of player I am referring to.

I appologize.

When Jena comes to cleanse Atys of the heretics, I will let her know you are okay

[grimjim]

Do you claim "moral supieriority" because of your neutrality?

Do you insist that, despite not following a faction, the faction powers should grant you the same benifts they grant their faithful?

If not, then you are certainly not the type of player I am referring to.

I appologize.

When Jena comes to cleanse Atys of the heretics, I will let her know you are okay

Tell a big enough load of bodoc turds often enough...

As the saying sort of goes...

[mithur]

As long as I read this thread, I think that neutrals and even Jyudas has very good points; but I strongly disagree with other points; even more, I think that points are the problem.

First: "Neutrals" must no be a faction of their own. Neutral are the default state, the starting state of all players. If you maintain that state, you have some strong disadvantages; so I really think that the devs could make something with that, reduce that disadvantages, so the neutral role (And never "neutral faction" could be played more easily).

But, GJ says some post before about a neutral player can tag as neutral. I strongly disagree. Neutral aren't a faction, and never will be. Sure that the neutral who want make PvP must can do it, why don't? Allow him to tag as any of the two bands, kami or kara. But *never* as a third faction, because neutrals aren't a faction. If in a future appears a Trytonist faction, then will be a third flag, and for that time a lot of people (Who knows, maybe Grinjim himself) will be saying 'Hey, I don't like how the devs have implemented tryton, I wanna be neutral'.

So, if a neutral player can tagged as any of the factions (With some fame restrictions, maybe), could be OK. He can be a mercenary of any kind, he can PvP as the rest of the people, but he doesn't have a faction of their own, but chose every time what faction support, or don't support any faction.

That, and make the life easier for those who don't want take a faction should be enough for give more diversity to the game, with few work by the devs and without perjuice for anyone else, I think.

BTW, could be very good for economy; one of the thinks who could solve the dapper devaluation are the money sinks; another, the currency circulation... some guilds as mercenaries could make a highter currency circulation.

[iwojimmy]

People talk about Guilds and players who "say" they are neutral, but follow a faction for the TPs.
I am the opposite. I support the Karavan, oppose the Kami, fight at OP battles - but not general PvP.... and am factioned Neutral and intend to stay that way.

Right from the beginning I distrusted the Kami.. nasty little shapeshifters, out to trick the gullible and weak of mind (explains why the Fyros follow them ).
However when Factions were brought into play, the heavy-handed and coercive way they went about it offended me. If you sign up with side K, you get these toys - but if you dont, then we will hurt you... I react negatively to that kind of bahaviour. Also, there is a cultural background, that fanaticism of any type, is just wrong.
As an IC rationale, my character was always a diplomat, and you cant be a diplomat if you cant talk to both sides. I beleive Homins need to look after their own interests, because the big K's arent going to, and Homins should not be killing each other at the beck and call of any other species... they should be killing each other for purely internal reasons

So I put up with not having TP access to the regions I need to level in, and yes, it does make me feel "morally superior" (which is perfectly in-character for a Matis )

[moyaku]

And I just noticed this seems to be slightly off topic as its about what a theoretical 3rd faction would have to be, instead of what makes people stay neutral currently I'd be happy to take this post from where I quoted Jy downwards to another thread if you want Moyaku

nah leave it here Spriteh, it s polite and calm and quite interesting actually

So far I learnt a lot reading you all keep going ! I m really enjoying this thread...