Ryzom

ooc:
I wouldn't get your hopes up on this Pero, certainly not after the reply given by Tidings. The document may speak of those institutions but aparantly none have been presented to players on any server, save a brief description of the High Council on Leanon a month ago. If Nevrax (I'm guessing these events were Nevrax made since they all happened on all severs in synch) intended to use it, then they probably overreached and made a mistake on the time specifications; if not and they won't happen ... then they probably won't happen at all.
/ooc

danolt wrote:The qualifications requirements for an election cannot be met [highlight]if there is no election[/highlight]. We are assuming an assembly exists. We are we assuming a High Council exists. We are assuming an election committee was formed. The only thing we know is that close to 4 cycles past the drop dead date for the constitutional mandated election, there have been no elections. There have been no updates, no rosters, no announcements, no justifications. Only when they were questioned did our governors even broach the subject.

I have not been asking to run. I have been asking to vote.

I ask again when will New Trykoth have a constitutional government?

Pero

From what I can gather, it has one.
There was a council under Wyler.
In order to run for a council position one must be a Tryker citizen for a certain period of time.
None of us who have emerged since 2525 would qualify to stand for the council.
Nobody who does qualify wished to challenge the incumbant council.
Thus no election was required.
Thus you have a constitutionally mandated government.

So far as I can make out. The Imperial Republic is a bit more simplistic and normally less open.

Your perspective is flawed. It is to deeply rooted in the 'hear and obey' mindset. There is a difference between subject and citizen, a difference between mercenary and steward. Federalism is a political philosophy. It is in no way, shape or form, pragmatic.

A group, a tribe, a region, will come together in which sovereignty is constitutionally divided between a central governing authority and constituent political units. The Constitution is the bond between ruled and ruler, Governor and citizen. All authority is granted from the constitution. It is an absolute. It must be followed.

It doesn't matter if every assemblyman ran unopposed, the constitution requires an election. There are no qualifications just a simple statement "within one year of a new governor taking office the national assembly will be reelected'. There were no elections, only appointments.

The main purpose of the central governing authority is to protect the constitution and its citizens. I had hoped that they would be stewards to the federation. I had hoped that they would try to get as many Homins involved in rebuilding our nation as possible. Instead they choose to ignore us, or worse, they forgot about us. What better way to unite us then by allowing us to choose unity. We have been refused that choice.

How sad it would be, if the reason for that refusal...was pragmatism.

Pero

grimjim wrote:So far as I can make out. The Imperial Republic is a bit more simplistic and normally less open.

As another homin that should remain out of Tryker politics I will say that it is improper for you to constantly attempt to sway public opinion. The Samsara has made a concerted effort to involve themselves in the complex politics of this nation without having been asked. If you truly wish to let the Trykers choose their own path and not let Pero push their hand I would say as another bystander you'd be best served to leave them be. The Trykers may either use you or someone else unworthy to rally behind for purposes maybe not in their best interest... Don't fall into the trap Jyudas !

danolt wrote:Your perspective is flawed. It is to deeply rooted in the 'hear and obey' mindset.

Heh, amusing.
I grew up in the Prime Roots refugee camps mostly, amongst many peoples. I didn't grow up immersed in a purely Fyrosian culture of military orders and obeying. Nor have I become a citizen of any land nor, despite a great deal of pressure, a follower of either faction. Not quite the 'hear and obey' thing is it?

danolt wrote:There is a difference between subject and citizen, a difference between mercenary and steward. Federalism is a political philosophy. It is in no way, shape or form, pragmatic.

Then that would be a flaw. Survival often demands pragmatism.

danolt wrote:It doesn't matter if every assemblyman ran unopposed, the constitution requires an election. There are no qualifications just a simple statement "within one year of a new governor taking office the national assembly will be reelected'. There were no elections, only appointments.

An appointment would be a direct selection from the governors office. Whatever went on doesn't appear to be that.

What would have been the point of you voting on a single candidate presented to you? There can only be one outcome in such a situation.

vguerin wrote:As another homin that should remain out of Tryker politics I will say that it is improper for you to constantly attempt to sway public opinion. The Samsara has made a concerted effort to involve themselves in the complex politics of this nation without having been asked. If you truly wish to let the Trykers choose their own path and not let Pero push their hand I would say as another bystander you'd be best served to leave them be. The Trykers may either use you or someone else unworthy to rally behind for purposes maybe not in their best interest... Don't fall into the trap Jyudas !

Tryker politics interest me because they are the most free of the nations. The dictatorial nobility of the Matis seems counterproductive, the religious tyranny of Zorai, while tempered by religious values seems too easily swayed by a different leader - consider Mabreka's antecedent. While the Imperial Republic is somewhat democratic it is also elitist and closed. The Tryker federation with its emphasis on freedom seems the most free and, as a people who established themselves based on an escape from oppression, it may provide a good model for a political system in some of the resettled Old Lands.

The Samsara have always cleaved to The Old Alliance and have strong economic, personal, emotional and historical ties with Tryker. There's a tradition of watching after our friends there since before The Swarming. Pero's concerns seem, to me, to be based on his dissatisfaction at not getting an extremist Karavan follower as leader of Tryker. I fail to see why he got quite so upset, he got someone who uses an honourific like a puffed up Matis noble, that's halfway there.

It seems to me his waving of the constitution is simply a cover for his own motives, things that would take the Tryker away from their more pragmatic and moderate outlook.

A perfect example of "hear and obey" thinking. "Survival often demands pragmatism". Can you actually name one instance where a homins survival has anything to do with being cautious? Is there one Homin amongst us who has not fallen at least once.

Our survival is guaranteed by the factions you so vehemently decry. There is no test, no price, nor oath required. Our lives are simply restored. Your very survival is a testament of non pragmatism

I suppose someone who can absolutely ignore the fact their life has been restored hundreds of times would be able to ignore pretty much anything they want.

There was no public request for candidates. There was no announcement stating that the present assembly would be running unopposed. There is no list of who is on the assembly. There is no way to contact the assembly.

How is this assembly, not one of whom any Tryker citizen can name, elected by the will of the people?

Had all this been done in the open, I would have no argument. Am I the only one who can see the danger in being ruled by a cartel that can not even be identified?

Pero

danolt wrote:Ask those who seek to "liberate" OP's from some nebulous, ill-defined evil empire, .......

Yes ? What ?...

danolt wrote:How many Matis must be in a guild before it is evil? 5, 10, 20? Is it a percentage? 100%? 75%? 50%? How many members, what percentage, of "native" members must be in a certain race before a guild can hold an outpost in that region?

It's not a question of "race" dear Pero, but citizenship, embrassing the values of a Tryker... Matis people are not "evil", but the imperialism and enslavement attitude of some Matis guilds are against our values. Not my fault if only Matis guilds are guilty of that.

danolt wrote:This is not about race, it is about our souls, our actual minds.

Ah, see !! you understood

danolt wrote:A perfect example of "hear and obey" thinking. "Survival often demands pragmatism". Can you actually name one instance where a homins survival has anything to do with being cautious? Is there one Homin amongst us who has not fallen at least once.

And yet to fall is still reckless. The seed can become broken, destroyed or corrupted as we have seen more than once.

danolt wrote:Our survival is guaranteed by the factions you so vehemently decry. There is no test, no price, nor oath required. Our lives are simply restored. Your very survival is a testament of non pragmatism.

And by Atys herself, let us not forget. Perhaps her power stolen by these false gods.

danolt wrote:There was no public request for candidates.

Judging by the document only a small number would have been eligable.

danolt wrote:There was no announcement stating that the present assembly would be running unopposed. There is no list of who is on the assembly. There is no way to contact the assembly.

Now you're actually talking some sense instead of talking out your bodocs. I would suggest you contact the guv'nor or one of their aides next time they stick their head over the parapet.

danolt wrote:How is this assembly, not one of whom any Tryker citizen can name, elected by the will of the people?

Elected by the will of the same people who originally elected them and through the will of the eligable candidates who declined to challenge. So it would seem.

danolt wrote:Had all this been done in the open, I would have no argument. Am I the only one who can see the danger in being ruled by a cartel that can not even be identified?

Aye, but with one leader assasinated why make targets of people eh? If these are the same candidates as before you should know who they are - or weren't you paying attention before? You concern is admirable, for someone who supports a monarchistic and imperialist group.

grimjim wrote:If these are the same candidates as before you should know who they are - or weren't you paying attention before?

None of us were around for the last "election." Seeing as there are no documents, names, results, actions, or meetings ever recording the existence of the previous election or the elected assembly (outside of it being mentioned in the constitution) I can see why you would not question it.

All one has to do to buy your loyalty, is well... to buy it.

Again, I am the one requesting elections, citizen participation and open government you are the one who is arguing for no disclosures, no votes and continuing the status quo.

Pero