Ryzom

kiwi2 wrote:I would like to point out to you, that the kami do the same to Kara. 11am on a week day when most kara are working? Hmmm...must be a coincidence. Before you start pointing fingers of blame, take a look at what your own faction is doing. This is a war, it's not ment to be fair.

Hadnt seen any of this battles in the last 4 months, but can be sure there will be some from now

sluggo0 wrote:you are a bigot if you think that a good Karavan guild like Omega V needed to be 'evicted' forcefully with the help of the Kami from the Lakelands, if you were really a 'good karavan guild' you would have had the political ability to do so peacefully, but the fact is, you aren't, from your past behaviours as a guild.

Granted I'm not a member of Nexus, but I do have close ties with them and especially their leaders. So I'm pretty much aware of the "real" reason behind their declaration on Omega V. If you don't have all the facts, don't go "name and shame" 'ing. Doesn't suit you.

sluggo0 wrote:Fact is, you are the only false Karavan guild, you deserve to be attacked, the outpost should you lose it will end up in the hands of a 'tryker' guild, but one of our choosing, not yours.

Your choosing eh. Hmm if I'm not mistaken, the Karavan Alliance does not hold the monopoly on the Karavan guilds does it ? So how would your decision to "choose" a guild be more justified than the decision they have to hold the Outpost ? If they don't trade with you, and refuse all contact and squander the name of Jena, sure, I suppose you could then "decide" to take their Outpost for the good of the Karavan. But isn't it a bit presumptious to tell someone how to live and express his religion ? Does being a karavan, or a kami for all that matter, mean being a zealot ?

PS: Sincerely not trying to start a flamewar, I'm just not following your point. If you could explain it more in depth so that I would get it, I'd be grateful.

sluggo0 wrote: I think it's not too hard to think a bit about the timing and make it so that it's 5pm EST (11PM GMT) most times is pretty reasonable as an alternative.

WE don't have enouhg people to split and unfortunately most of us would be on the European server anyhow due to guilds and already mentioned things.

I undertsand what u saying and i know what point your trying to raise, but an OP battle finishing at 1am UK time (2am france, 3am italy) is reasonable? with work the next day? doesnt to me sound too reaonsbale.

Its easy for a UK player to say "lets attack at 7pm out time" just like its easy for a us player to say "lets attack at 10pm our time) The REAL issue is that OP's were in concept WAY WAY WAY b4 the servers joined (IRRC OP's were mentioned on the original box>) so ofcourse they are be "unfair" to some extnt when it comes to timing.

Lets face it, if we counted every Kara (30+ fame) and every Kami there would be more Kara. (espc in the US time zone) there have been many Kami attacks at times that would be "unsuitbale" for US Kara (I.E 10pm BST) - which the Kami lot. but only recently has the timing issue be really raised. - why is that? Maybe becuase 3am uk time (4am france 5am poland) is really very harsh? maybe cos 11am EST time is very harsh? but attacks at this time have been and gone. so again i ask. why has the issue really had a spotlight brough upon it now??

hehe ok i was ranting a bit LOL (should get off forums and mayvbe more ingame)

Tyilin

xxx

sluggo0 wrote:
We are Karavan, we work together for things, ....


Fact is, you are the only false Karavan guild, you deserve to be attacked, the outpost should you lose it will end up in the hands of a 'tryker' guild, but one of our choosing, not yours.

Good luck!

That mean that any player with karavan fame have to follow blindly anything that KA leaders want to?
That in any case that u help a friend that could be kami u deserve the title of fake karavan or traitor?
Ofc as u say, YOU'll CHOSE a tryker guild that deserve that OP, i hope u'll be so sage and so fair to deceide that kind of things mate
cant beleive this kind of attitudes really

[QUOTE=sluggo0][...]
Fact is, you are the only false Karavan guild, you deserve to be attacked, the outpost should you lose it will end up in the hands of a 'tryker' guild, but one of our choosing, not yours.

[...]
[QUOTE]

QED

apolo wrote:That mean that any player with karavan fame have to follow blindly anything that KA leaders want to?
That in any case that u help a friend that could be kami u deserve the title of fake karavan or traitor?
Ofc as u say, YOU'll CHOSE a tryker guild that deserve that OP, i hope u'll be so sage and so fair to deceide that kind of things mate
cant beleive this kind of attitudes really

We don't follow anything blindly, but we do make decisions as a group.. a group isn't an entity but for its members, it's just like democracy, and it works fairly well, it has some drawbacks, but a group decedes what to do together.

If Nexus had asked to work together with allied guilds, the 'eviction' wouldn't have been with only the work of the Kami. I'm only stating what happend and what's really there for me to state. I can't second guess motives, I can only state facts, the facts speak for themselves. Please name all the times Nexus fought with the Karavan... then all they fought with the Kami, the facts speak for themselves, no mattter how ineloquent I may be in speaking.

Whoever said i don't have the facts straight, please post them instead of trying to raise an ad-hominen argument attacking me. Nexus made it very clear why at the time, and I use that in my reasoning. So if i'm wrong, what is right?

lienem wrote:Your choosing eh. Hmm if I'm not mistaken, the Karavan Alliance does not hold the monopoly on the Karavan guilds does it ? So how would your decision to "choose" a guild be more justified than the decision they have to hold the Outpost ?

Yeah, sorry that was a bit off the cuff.. point I was trying to make is that we are still not 'over' the fact that rather than trying to resolve what Nexus felt was an injustice in the Lakelands diplomatically, they went out and attacked not with like minded tryker guilds but with an alliance of Kami.

The Karavan faction (not KA) should be working together not divisivly. Don't we see that if we fight amonst ourselves we are weaker as a faction?

If Nexus truly is a Karavan guild, then their methods and past behaviour mean there is a great deal of repartations due to the Karavan. They've continually allied with the opposing side in OP battles and fought Karavan (again NOTHING TO DO WITH KA -- sorry i want to seperate the KA from Karavan as people use that as a justifaction to atack some evil alliance).

Unfortunatley, there seems to have been so much harm done, that some of us want to make it clear to Nexus that we don't consider them allies any more, no matter what their fame window says, they are our enemies (the Karavan's in general, not the KA's).

Again, I don't think the KA is some big mystery. We cooperate with ANY Karavan guild, exchange cyrstals with them 1:1 or better when needed, help their members get gear. Some are 'tighter' than others, because in the past, we've had problems with information leaking out of our 'private' discussions prematurely.

And, I am not a member of KA first, I am a Karavan, and a homin, I help all homins and Karvan, I oppose Kamist aggression, or support Karavan aggression but beyond that hold no grudge against a Kamist for the error of their ways following the vile dog Ma-duk, I will befriend them and try to turn them to the true path through gentleness and friendship, except wherer they threaten my people.

sluggo0 wrote:....but firstly, you are a bigot if you think that a good Karavan guild like Omega V needed to be 'evicted' forcefully with the help of the Kami from the Lakelands, if you were really a 'good karavan guild' you would have had the political ability to do so peacefully

Here a part of the post we made when war was declared on Omega V in Loria : As a karavan guild, non-member of the Karavan Alliance, we have been officialy declared as an ennemy guild and kos, another reason to try to stop them expoiting the Tryker ressources for their own profit.

Some other things have been discussed in another thread (intention of war declaration) with Noinossalg, like non accepted trade between our 2 guilds for op mats... click my name and find other message by... to check them (too lazy to quote)

Hadnt seen any of this battles in the last 4 months, but can be sure there will be some from now

Aparently you werent informed of a few of the attacks

Attack time of this last Zo-Kian battle. 6pm GMT = 2pm EDT, and that was on thursday.

Malmont Attack time (mid August) 7pm GMT = 3pm EDT Thursday

Gu-Qin attack time (mid July) 7pm BST = 2pm Wednesday

*note - there have also been attacks during US friendly times, just pointing out facts here and correcting someone who needs to find out the information before speaking up. The Karavan USUALLY do not bring out battle anouncements here on this forum, we rely on in game info and internal forums for that...simply because no matter what, it turns into a big lunacy fest.

Now that that is settled, it really is pointless to argue about the attack defense times, we will all use time zones to our own advantage. To me thats part of the whole reason of having TWO rounds in an OP takeover attempt. Unless everyone wants to move in together and we can create a Ryzom commune so we are all on the same time zone, i'ts going to happen..not all can be there for an attack, not all can be there for a defense...period

Granted I'm not a member of Nexus, but I do have close ties with them and especially their leaders. So I'm pretty much aware of the "real" reason behind their declaration on Omega V. If you don't have all the facts, don't go "name and shame" 'ing. Doesn't suit you.

Also listen to your own advise, you do not know the reasons behind this, you do not need to know unless you are a member of the attacking guild or a supporter. This entire thread was started just as you said, a 'name and shame'..just show up and have a good fight like this last one.

H

aude03 wrote:Here a part of the post we made when war was declared on Omega V in Loria : As a karavan guild, non-member of the Karavan Alliance, we have been officialy declared as an ennemy guild and kos, another reason to try to stop them expoiting the Tryker ressources for their own profit.

Some other things have been discussed in another thread (intention of war declaration) with Noinossalg, like non accepted trade between our 2 guilds for op mats... click my name and find other message by... to check them (too lazy to quote)

I am a bit confused, but perhaps I missed some subtleties at teh time.. you were declared enemies before then? That's a huge surprise as at the time, the whole matter was a complete shock to myself, and member of other karavan guilds.

If you had trouble negotiating with OV, you could have come to any other Karavan guild and we could have easily tried to work out a diplomatic solution.

I'm not sure I believe you were declared 'kos' and enemies BEFORE you attacked Karavan guilds. Sometimes misunderstandings do lead to problems, did you all feel 'outside' the Karavan guilds for some reason? Maybe, but you were not considered our or MANY other guilds enemies until you acted hostilely against the Karvan (and continued to do so), at the time the reason you advanced seemed distasteful but one act didn't deserve condemnation, it's every act of aggression since then that's earned the current situation, in my eyes and many of my other Karavan friends eyes.

Maybe I should read all those past posts but I trust my recollection of what happend among the Karavan pretty well. I don't think it's possible to undo what's been done, and certainly continueing to fight the Karavan (as you did last night at Zo-Kian) will NOT help you gain support or win back a chance of acceptance among the Karavan.

Sorry, your actions overwhelm your words by a factor of 1000. AGain, you will not be allowed to have a superior voice here when it's a lie, say we're being unfair if you want, but that's your opinion, I wont' be silent if the idea that Melinoe is somehow being aggressive to Karavan is the last word spoken because that is a load of hogwassh and you know it as well as I.

Let's not play dodgy politics, you chose the path of least resistance in the past, and it earned you the situation you have now. You made your bed, now you've gotta sleep in it.