Atatck on Sai-Shun Stronghold

[vguerin]

Sorry DT but you misunderstood what I said. When Zok pointed out Karavan guilds had also done false declarations in the past, Spriteh said "Now is different to then". I was just asking how he felt there was a difference between one in the past and one now?

I wasn't inferring that the latest one was false. Sorry if it came across like that.

NP man... TBH though, it is the guilds themselves that should get the label and not a "faction". Sure CoM had done this in the past, and it was frowned upon and was often done without alot of consultation with anyone else. CoM is no longer with us AFAIK and being tagged with things you haven't done yourself is never enjoyable

I know it's good propoganda, to try and make ANY Karavan aligned homins seem to all be typecast... but that doesn't make it true I like to believe that most Karavaneers are consistant in their actions... I also think simultaneous attacks alongside a true attack is a tactic. Doing it and never really having a true battle take place (like Jackoba recently did, merely showing up to say you did) is not a tactic and wastes so many folks time it does truly border on griefing. Things should always be fun, assuming you have the honor to lose gracefully.

Thanks for clarifying your position, I was really just trying to do the same and pointing out acts of individuals and specific guilds does not make others with similar ties also guilty of these acts.

[andypur1]

NP man... TBH though, it is the guilds themselves that should get the label and not a "faction". Sure CoM had done this in the past, and it was frowned upon and was often done without alot of consultation with anyone else. CoM is no longer with us AFAIK and being tagged with things you haven't done yourself is never enjoyable

Well, I do remember one occasion when Melinoe turned up late to attack Gu-Qin Workshop OP, when it was still in Twilight Whispers' hands, but I think that was on the day of the infamous Samsara OP battle and so I don't really count it.
Of course, the mobs in Grove of Umbra did most of the job for us that day

That period was certainly the low-point of the OP war, as far as I'm concerned and there were lots of attacks on the one day. I glad that that period now seems to be in the past.

We could do with a few smaller battles though

[andypur1]

I know!!!

people are going to start equating riders with PvP bugbear threads

Don't worry, finishing work soon and then back to the digging. Don't hesitate to ask for Zok for any aid you might need.

[totnkopf]

I was in attendance last night, and all I saw were two lvl 250 Kara who were most probably bored and had nothing too do and so decided to go see what was going on.
I dont know who counted four, but I specifically remember 2 Kara sitting down talking too the kami and I am a member of riders of the storm.

Dman, Judis, Rykrom (sp?) and Aajolea were the Kara forces that showed. The 2 250 karas were Aajolea and Itsmagic (whos not Karavan at all, but was attempting to provide some entertainment for the Kami forces that showed).

As for false declarations, I think its in bad taste to just declare on an op or OPs and not to show to any of them. If you decalre multiple OPs and then show up to attack only one of them (using the declarations to spread some chaos into the other forces) it seems perfectly legal.

Also was was I said on the 2nd page, there was an attacking force. This wasn't a false declaration. An attacking force, no matter how small, did show and did attempt to attack.

[philu]

NP man... TBH though, it is the guilds themselves that should get the label and not a "faction".

*snip*

Thanks for clarifying your position, I was really just trying to do the same and pointing out acts of individuals and specific guilds does not make others with similar ties also guilty of these acts.

Cant argue with that. Mainly because it's very true IMHO.

[greymar]

However, I would rather not have had to announce a call to arms to satisfy the pvp whims of one small boy. This is not intended as a challenge to Dman or to be inflamatory to the Karavan in general, just to point out that we all have other things to do with our time than stand around waiting for the timer to run out and I think those involved in the VVV defence last week would agree.

Well.. this member of VVV agrees. I don't have the luxury of a summer off from school to do what I want to do. I had to work a 12 hour day that day, then spend my "relax" time standing around the OP. Yea... that was LOTS of fun. Yes, it was my choice... no, I probably wasn't needed.. but I'm a High Officer of the guild, and it was my responsibility to be there. so by the time it was over, I was straight to bed.

[philu]

Not sure how or if this could be implemented, but there's clearly a problem here and needs to be a way to stop false declarations. One option is to make the cost a lot higher but that's still exploitable.

Another way would be to have a way to 'police' (or log) an OP battle, round by round. A way to register who takes part. Then if you declare on an OP and don't take part in X number of rounds (e.g. half of them), you can't declare again for a set period (e.g. 6 months, preferably longer!). Nor can any other member of your guild since OPs are guild based.

Sounds harsh? Maybe but it would soon put a stop to all the situations that have been described on this thread, where people have had to spend their playing time sitting around. Quite frankly, declaring on an OP then not turning up is a form of griefing and should be against the COC. There's a line in the COC that states something along the lines of a player shall not adversely affect another player's gaming experience. Isn't that what false declarations do?

I know it would annoy me (and has), so come on Nevrax, do something about it!

[totnkopf]

Not sure how or if this could be implemented, but there's clearly a problem here and needs to be a way to stop false declarations. One option is to make the cost a lot higher but that's still exploitable.

Another way would be to have a way to 'police' (or log) an OP battle, round by round. A way to register who takes part. Then if you declare on an OP and don't take part in X number of rounds (e.g. half of them), you can't declare again for a set period (e.g. 6 months, preferably longer!). Nor can any other member of your guild since OPs are guild based.

Sounds harsh? Maybe but it would soon put a stop to all the situations that have been described on this thread, where people have had to spend their playing time sitting around. Quite frankly, declaring on an OP then not turning up is a form of griefing and should be against the COC. There's a line in the COC that states something along the lines of a player shall not adversely affect another player's gaming experience. Isn't that what false declarations do?

I disagree here that it needs some sort of system implemented that limits declaring. The community has done a decent job of policing it themselves. As I said before, false declarations, though they may be in bad taste, are a valid tactic and are a hazzard of owning an OP. Its annoying to be sure, but claiming it as greifing would be along the same lines as complaining about being ganked while in a pvp region. Both are mechanics of the game and can lead to some things that people don't enjoy. There is nothing stating that anyone has to show up to an OP fight or that anyone has to stay until the time is up. Forcing greif upon someone is different than you choosing to volunteer for it.

Now repeated false declarations on the same OP by the same guild might be considered harassment, but don't think thats happened to anyone yet.

Flase declarations are annoying, but they are also a valid tactic. If I was planning on attacking an OP, I might go and declare on 3 others at the same time. The enemy would then no know which to show up at to defend as they do not know which one I intend to make my primary target. it also provides a different target for when an attack is not going favorably. To be sure someone will be at each of the OPs making sure no one shows and that they'll not be pleased about having to watch an empty OP, but thats means that those people won't be at the OP I attack and thus make the defending force a bit lighter.

there is also the element of "boy who cried wolf"... if someone declares enough times that their guild becomes known as a false declaratory guild, any defense force against a declaration would be smaller and smaller. But then theres that one day where a large force shows up and the OP is overrun. Another tactic, a bit longer term, but a tactic none the less.

[greymar]

I guess it comes down to the fact that some people respect other players, and treat them as they would want to be treated...

And others just do what they want as long as the mechanics allow it, and don't give a yubo's tail now it might reduce the enjoyment of the game for others. Because, after all, it's more important to get what you want than actually show some courtesy to the rest of the player base.

What one person calls valid, I believe to be annoying, disresepctful, and discourteous; however, that's a matter of opinion and perspective. Those aren't insults... they're not flames.. they are my beliefs. Note, I'm not bothering to try to change anoyne's mind... because that'd be rather like trying to push a boulder up a hill. We shall have to just agree to disagree, and leave it at that I think. I don't understand the mindset, but I respect everyone's right to believe what they want. I simply hope that one day the EULA will be adjusted, or the mechancs changed, to attempt to alleviate these issues that obviously many feel very strongly about.

[philu]

I guess it comes down to the fact that some people respect other players, and treat them as they would want to be treated...

And others just do what they want as long as the mechanics allow it, and don't give a yubo's tail now it might reduce the enjoyment of the game for others. Because, after all, it's more important to get what you want than actually show some courtesy to the rest of the player base.

Couldn't agree more. That's exactly how I feel. I wouldn't use such a tactic (assuming I ever did PvP ), nor would I like it being used against me.

I would never support any guild that used to such a tactic either.