Ryzom

lexi44 wrote:I hate to say it Red, but I hope this thread gets locked too. It's going nowhere except on the usual merry-go-round of hate.

Yeah I agree but I was hoping maybe people could do it on there own ..Or stop arguing I guess.

[edit] the last few post are not to bad at all ...

Well, I've waited a few days to post this - I wanted things to simmer down a little bit so that hopefully my views won't instigate yet another flame-war. I could just start a new thread, but this thread title is spot-on what I'm about to share. Before I do though, I want to make it *clear* - this post in no way is a personal attack on the KA, any guild in the KA, nor any individual in the KA. With that said, here goes....

In my opinion, the Karavan Alliance has grown larger than itself. I'm sure when it first started and had but a few guilds in it, it made perfect sense and was probably a "good" thing. However, it has grown to include almost every Karavan guild which is (just guessing) probably 7/8's of the guilds on Atys. Because of this, and because of the KA's very charter - it has become a major issue in OP declarations....and actually using OP's for what they were intended to be about.

What it boils down to is most of the server's guilds *can't* declare on an OP they might actually want to take...just for pvp's sake, or just for fun...because "omg" it's an Alliance-held OP. So, if they want to actually have an OP battle then they have to declare on those that are already somewhat oppressed by the huge Alliance (again, please don't anyone take this personally, it is just a general observation of mine)....but of course, not those that have been "friendly" to the Alliance either. So we get down to there are only about 2 or 3 OP's out of ALL of them that can actually be declared on without the entire server going into a downward spiral.

What I'm basically saying is that OP's aren't even "FvF" anymore....they have gone beyond that....they are "AvNA" (Alliance vs. Non-Alliance). I see this as a major problem. Because of this, guilds are "afraid" to declare on another guild's OP (even though that *is* what OP's were designed for). Now, because of *this* a lot of players are getting bored because not only have they done all the current PvE that's available, but they can't even really do the GvG/FvF "new content". And it's alllllllllll because of one word: Politics.

Although what happened this weekend with the Samsara OP was a different matter all together (and frankly we've kicked, quartered and eaten that dead horse enough), everything that happened this weekend is kind of related to what I'm saying here. If folks wouldn't have been bored and tired of *not* being "allowed" to declare, a lot of what happened this weekend would not have happened *the way it did*.

Since I don't like to point out what I see as problems, and not offer any ideas for solutions, here is what I think could be a solution...

I think the Karavan Alliance should disband (dons her flame-retardant suit). Not out of dishonor or anything BAD....I just think maybe several *smaller* Alliances could form and Atysians could go back to having some fun. I would venture to guess that not *everyone* in the Alliance has the exact same ideals, so maybe if you broke off into smaller "splinter groups" that truely do have the "same mind", then there could be even more happiness throughout.

This is just an idea, and obviously this whole post is only my opinion. I hope that it will be taken in the spirit in which it was written. Not to start trouble or cause flames, but merely my attempt to help fix what *I* think is part of the problem. Again, I mean no disrespect to anyone by anything I've said here, and I certainly hope no one takes offense.

Take care and have fun!

because of the KA's very charter

For the record, the alliance has never had a charter (or official name) of any kind.

they are "AvNA" (Alliance vs. Non-Alliance).

The "Guardians" alliance and associated friends has been proven time and again to be far greater in size than the so-called KA; you've said this yourself They may have been originally formed as a purely defensive alliance, but we have still seen a few members of those guilds show up to attack other OPs - good for them I say, as long as everyone agrees that there should be no stigma to attacking anyone who owns an OP - if everyone accepts the fact that that's what OPs are there for, I think we would all be much happier

And it's alllllllllll because of one word: Politics.

I agree, but many many people were begging for alliances to be allowed for OP battles (myself included), and now that one alliance has the majority of the OPs under their control, there are many people saying things should be only GvG - thankfully I haven't noticed many people being in both camps, but as the old saying goes "You can't please everyone"

Edit: I know this is nitpicking, but a quick look at the guild list shows the number to be closer to 1/3 than 7/8 (11/34 listed guilds)

Sinera,

Most of what you said of the Karavan Alliance is not true. From the outside things may seem like this, they are not. Guilds in the Karavan Alliance have made the choice to sit out of battles.

Also, a lot can be accomplished by talking to folks rather than sitting back and not acting because people feel they are outmatched.

marct wrote: Also, a lot can be accomplished by talking to folks rather than sitting back and not acting because people feel they are outmatched.

*nods*
Might not hurt for all parties to talk a bit to each other. And it might certainly help understanding each others views.

sprite wrote:For the record, the alliance has never had a charter (or official name) of any kind.

I probably used the wrong word for what I meant. I was referring to the "we won't/can't declare on them because they are in the Alliance" sort of thing that I myself heard said *many* times.

sprite wrote:The "Guardians" alliance and associated friends has been proven time and again to be far greater in size than the so-called KA; you've said this yourself

Recently I did say, flat-out "I don't ever want to hear the Kami's saying they are outnumbered and can't ever win again". The reason the Kami's weren't outnumbered in the battle I said that about was because of the time of day the battle was (most Kara had to go to bed to work the next day), and because the Kami's had rallied the support of both Neutrals and even some Kara to help them defend that OP.

As for the actual size of the "Guardians Alliance", I can offer no statement one way or the other. I simply don't know what their numbers are.

sprite wrote: as long as everyone agrees that there should be no stigma to attacking anyone who owns an OP - if everyone accepts the fact that that's what OPs are there for, I think we would all be much happier I agree,

Sorry for breaking up your thought this way, and I don't mean to appear as I'm nit-picking your opinions out of context. Anyway, what you said here is exactly what my whole post was about. In a nutshell... if there was no stigma to attacking anyone who owns an OP is precisely my point. Unfortunately, you had to kind of "cancel out" everything you said here with that doggone "but" word....

sprite wrote:but many many people were begging for alliances to be allowed for OP battles (myself included), and now that one alliance has the majority of the OPs under their control, there are many people saying things should be only GvG - thankfully I haven't noticed many people being in both camps, but as the old saying goes "You can't please everyone"

I wasn't saying there shouldn't be any Alliances. Alliances can be fun and good for folks (though I do tend to lean towards the "GvG camp"). I was just saying that I think THE "Karavan Alliance" has out-grown itself...and it's outgrown it's "good for the community". Again, I don't mean to make a "personal" attack on the KA et al.

It did occur to me, after I posted that I was leaving out a solution for those that want to "own it all" and be the ONE great power of Atys. I know...yes, *know*...there are those with that ultimate goal. Having one big huge Alliance is the answer for them, for obvious reasons. But I'm sure there are others like me that don't care about "owning it all" or being the "ultimate power" and just wanna have some fun without (to use your words)...the stigma of attacking anyone else's OP.


[Edit for dang typos]

sprite wrote:Edit: I know this is nitpicking, but a quick look at the guild list shows the number to be closer to 1/3 than 7/8 (11/34 listed guilds)

Pfft! You nit-picker, you! LOL

I stand...err, sit...corrected

lexi44 wrote: Unfortunately, you had to kind of "cancel out" everything you said here with that doggone "but" word....

Well, I actually did break those two points up in my post, if you were rereading it while in the "reply" mode, then I can see how they could appear to be one point - I tend not to put returns before/after my [ quote ] tags since they already have one built in I stand by both points, bu... uh, *and* I personally don't see them as inexorably connected

Yep, that's what happened. In the reply window it was all in one paragraph. I usually hate to pick apart other's posts and insert quotes here and there because it loses the flavor of the original post. But sometimes it's necessary for clarity.

Umm, or sometimes it's just so my old forgetful brain can remember what the heck I was actually responding to, lmao!

Thanks for the responses so far, all of you. My post wasn't meant as a "THIS is how it should be"...and all comments are welcome. My post was just what *I* think, and I'm always open to suggestion if it makes more sense that I can come up with.

I just know something has to change. Something has to bring the fun back. Maybe if GL's will just send an email to another GL and say "hey, our guild wants to declare on your OP just for fun....our guild will meet your guild at such and such hour...lets have some fun, may the best guild win!". I don't know....

Well as it seems even tho im coming back to game in a week or so..I wont be staying for good I wont state the reason I say this at this time..But it looks like ill have a very good reason to leave for good in a few weeks/months or however long it takes.

Im very glad that this post went back on topic and im glad you expressed your veiws Sinera.Any other views are welcome aswell..

P.S. if the kara do get all OPs then good for them..But then they have to break there own ways (to fight as a faction) and fight amongst them selves or not at all ...how can that be fun for anyone ?