Totaly a no loot game :( = boaring for the non crafters
Re: Totaly a no loot game :( = boaring for the non crafters
there's already camping of sorts being done. all you experienced harvesters look at your maps and see how many known good spots you have marked and how much time do you spend in those specific spots. camping isn't only done by hunters.
Re: Totaly a no loot game :( = boaring for the non crafters
You still need certain goods for crafting. A hunter can know what materials they need, and Quarter those. Given to a crafter, the hunter can then make a request. So its not that this is a no-loot game: you're just dependent on crafters, in much the same way civilization needs people to defend it.
The problem isn't the dependency: it's that there is no in-game mechanism to simpliy it.
There's a feature I'd love to see: commisions. EVE Online calls them 'Buy Orders'. Basically, an NPC would allow you to place an order to buy a constructed good of a certain minimum quality level. You could leave in ingredients or cash with the NPC.
A crafter then comes along and sees the request. They agree to make the item, and pay some sort of deposit fee with the NPC. The crafter then crafts the item, resells it to the NPC, and gathers both their deposit to the NPC and some reward/payment if the attempt met the proper level.
You would then get some kind of in-game message that your item had been produced, and you could visit the NPC to retrieve your new item.
Adding features, like allowing comissions to expire if no one fills them within x hours/days/weeks, or allowing crafters to advertise their services at the NPC comissioner, would be icing.
The problem isn't the dependency: it's that there is no in-game mechanism to simpliy it.
There's a feature I'd love to see: commisions. EVE Online calls them 'Buy Orders'. Basically, an NPC would allow you to place an order to buy a constructed good of a certain minimum quality level. You could leave in ingredients or cash with the NPC.
A crafter then comes along and sees the request. They agree to make the item, and pay some sort of deposit fee with the NPC. The crafter then crafts the item, resells it to the NPC, and gathers both their deposit to the NPC and some reward/payment if the attempt met the proper level.
You would then get some kind of in-game message that your item had been produced, and you could visit the NPC to retrieve your new item.
Adding features, like allowing comissions to expire if no one fills them within x hours/days/weeks, or allowing crafters to advertise their services at the NPC comissioner, would be icing.
Re: Totaly a no loot game :( = boaring for the non crafters
I think that they are working to start a system where a crafter can commision something that they make, to sell it while they are offline. I think that is a step. I would also like to see an online message board kinda thing, where those with a need could post it and crafters could look through it, it would have to be regional since travel is as limited as it is.
Re: Totaly a no loot game :( = boaring for the non crafters
truth be known, i've crafted many items so far that have popped up with extremely rare magical properties already. these probably being quite interesting. ie. a level 24 pike i made that had acid 6 on it that did 157 damage per hit. so i would consider them making it so that the NPCs that you have to fight in the tribes around the land should.. or could drop special items. make it so that any of them could drop special items. then that could eleviate the need for camping.sankari wrote:I'd like to see a combination of both to be honest. I'd like it as it is to some degree:
I like the fact that animals don't drop "A Rusty Sword", they should never drop stuff like that. Keeping it to "body parts" only on these types of mobs is fine.
However, i'd like see some drops in that game from more rare and plausible creatures, creatures that look like they "might" have a "Sword of Ultimate Slaying Doom with added sparkly effects" drops. Make them rare - really rare, make them on par with crafted weapons (or slightly less) - something to add a little more varity to the drops.
I know that it would be a huge balancing issue (crafted vs drops), but i'm sure it could be done.
However, i'm also sure that when player vendors (or such-like) are in the game, then the market for items / weapons will open up hugely.
But i know of a game that already has all this i spoke of .. and is still in beta. and even has it so that recipes for RARE items drop for crafters .. so even crafters can make anything as rare as random loot. of course it requires special materials to make .. but still..
i don't like to start a flame page so i refrain from speaking the name of game. *cough* W ...Re: Totaly a no loot game :( = boaring for the non crafters
The original poster has a fine point, and one that I have been mulling over in my mind since I began playing. I, myself, enjoy the Harvest/Craft elements of this game immensely, and there is much in that applied concept to occupy my time, but I also realize that this WILL NOT be enough for many other players.
The question that ought not to be ignored then becomes, what do we do to make the game equally interesting for those who play to fight? Unfortunatly at present, there isn't very much. All creatures of all types drop the EXACT same quality material. If I kill a "Growling Ragus," I get "Fine 24 etc." On the other hand, if I kill a "Scowling Ragus," I get "Basic 34 etc." Pardon my being blunt, but this is BORINGLY PREDICTABLE. Nor do I think that the "end-game" for pure fighter types should be "Skin that material from a tough mob...Run it to your nearest crafter." That is unacceptable.
A few ideas that I have come up with over the last month are as follows;
1.) Have all non-creature NPCs drop loot of some kind, and RARELY/RANDOMLY drop some exclusive weapons and armor pieces. For instance, if a player kills a "Green Seed" tribesman, there should be a remote chance that that NPC will drop a "Green-Seed Spearman's Pike," or a "Breastplate of the Green Seed." These loot items would be on par with higher crafted items, but have entirely unique skins unto themselves. and decay at a slightly slower rate, or even have augmented hit point totals. These pieces would also act as incentive trophies for Outpost warfare when that begins to become prevelent. These pieces could also be made considerably lighter or much heavier than their crafted counterpart etc.
2.) Creatures should have a greater diversity of a possible loot pool, since they make up the bulk of the fighter's prey. For Creature Loot...
a.) Creature NPCs could drop (on rare occasion) unique stanza blocks for any of the available professions and levels. I would suggest these bricks be Upgrade types as opposed to skill blocks, but both could be included. They could be as simple as +10 to Health, or as complex as "Kitin rear leg strike with creature knockdown."
b.) Creature NPCs could drop "Skin Schematics" for unique weapons and Armor pieces. There is little enough diversity as it is among the armor types, we need an improvment here, so why not let the pure combat templates lead the way? The Armor piece or Weapon made from this looted schematic do not need to necessarily be stronger than what the crafter would produce at that equivelent level, but it would look very different when worn.
c.) These NPCs could also drop Spell Crystals that could be instantly applied to that warrior's weapon, or saved for later use. Large count Sap Crystals could be included as well.
d.) Also, how about serial Weapon and Armor piece collection? A warrior may loot a special "Grip" for a Pike from a creature, and a Heavy armor "Shell" piece from another. When combined correctly, these pieces would construct a complete unique item. NOT an overpowering one, simply a different looking item.
As a last comment I will remind my fellow players that oftentimes it is the "promise" of unique loot that can make a fighter's gameplay just as thrilling as the actual delivery. Make these loot item RARE and RANDOM (that is to say that the same pieces DO NOT... DO NOT drop from the same creatures all of time. They could fall from a YUBO or a Root Dweller, the only game element that would improve your chances of getting one is the AMOUNT of Creature slaying that you do (Pure fighters having the advantage), giving them better reason to hunt in this addition. Everything in Ryzom degrades, so we really do not have that much to fear, I assure you.
The question that ought not to be ignored then becomes, what do we do to make the game equally interesting for those who play to fight? Unfortunatly at present, there isn't very much. All creatures of all types drop the EXACT same quality material. If I kill a "Growling Ragus," I get "Fine 24 etc." On the other hand, if I kill a "Scowling Ragus," I get "Basic 34 etc." Pardon my being blunt, but this is BORINGLY PREDICTABLE. Nor do I think that the "end-game" for pure fighter types should be "Skin that material from a tough mob...Run it to your nearest crafter." That is unacceptable.
A few ideas that I have come up with over the last month are as follows;
1.) Have all non-creature NPCs drop loot of some kind, and RARELY/RANDOMLY drop some exclusive weapons and armor pieces. For instance, if a player kills a "Green Seed" tribesman, there should be a remote chance that that NPC will drop a "Green-Seed Spearman's Pike," or a "Breastplate of the Green Seed." These loot items would be on par with higher crafted items, but have entirely unique skins unto themselves. and decay at a slightly slower rate, or even have augmented hit point totals. These pieces would also act as incentive trophies for Outpost warfare when that begins to become prevelent. These pieces could also be made considerably lighter or much heavier than their crafted counterpart etc.
2.) Creatures should have a greater diversity of a possible loot pool, since they make up the bulk of the fighter's prey. For Creature Loot...
a.) Creature NPCs could drop (on rare occasion) unique stanza blocks for any of the available professions and levels. I would suggest these bricks be Upgrade types as opposed to skill blocks, but both could be included. They could be as simple as +10 to Health, or as complex as "Kitin rear leg strike with creature knockdown."
b.) Creature NPCs could drop "Skin Schematics" for unique weapons and Armor pieces. There is little enough diversity as it is among the armor types, we need an improvment here, so why not let the pure combat templates lead the way? The Armor piece or Weapon made from this looted schematic do not need to necessarily be stronger than what the crafter would produce at that equivelent level, but it would look very different when worn.
c.) These NPCs could also drop Spell Crystals that could be instantly applied to that warrior's weapon, or saved for later use. Large count Sap Crystals could be included as well.
d.) Also, how about serial Weapon and Armor piece collection? A warrior may loot a special "Grip" for a Pike from a creature, and a Heavy armor "Shell" piece from another. When combined correctly, these pieces would construct a complete unique item. NOT an overpowering one, simply a different looking item.
As a last comment I will remind my fellow players that oftentimes it is the "promise" of unique loot that can make a fighter's gameplay just as thrilling as the actual delivery. Make these loot item RARE and RANDOM (that is to say that the same pieces DO NOT... DO NOT drop from the same creatures all of time. They could fall from a YUBO or a Root Dweller, the only game element that would improve your chances of getting one is the AMOUNT of Creature slaying that you do (Pure fighters having the advantage), giving them better reason to hunt in this addition. Everything in Ryzom degrades, so we really do not have that much to fear, I assure you.
Re: Totaly a no loot game :( = boaring for the non crafters
While I agree with some parts of your points, some of it would be game breaking.
1. The unique or special loot idea is fine, but the item has to be only as good as a weapon made out of average materials. Any NPC who possess a special weapon that was better than others would have a tremendous skill and would not have died to you.
2. a. While that certain skills may be learned from fighting the monster, you getting a stanza as loot would totally mess up the skill point based system.
b. Why would creatures drop schematics? have you ever seen any creature carry schematics around? They should have maybe unique fur patterns or colors, but schematics? gimme a break.
c. Sap crystals drops would defeat the whole purpose of having a mage to make them for you. Unacceptable.
d. This idea has merit, uniqueness is what people are looking for. However, how feasible is it? This would mean much more textures downloaded to each person's computer and a much longer load time between zones.
1. The unique or special loot idea is fine, but the item has to be only as good as a weapon made out of average materials. Any NPC who possess a special weapon that was better than others would have a tremendous skill and would not have died to you.
2. a. While that certain skills may be learned from fighting the monster, you getting a stanza as loot would totally mess up the skill point based system.
b. Why would creatures drop schematics? have you ever seen any creature carry schematics around? They should have maybe unique fur patterns or colors, but schematics? gimme a break.
c. Sap crystals drops would defeat the whole purpose of having a mage to make them for you. Unacceptable.
d. This idea has merit, uniqueness is what people are looking for. However, how feasible is it? This would mean much more textures downloaded to each person's computer and a much longer load time between zones.
Re: Totaly a no loot game :( = boaring for the non crafters
Well Korin, since you replied to few of my ideas, I will in turn critique yours...
-You could not kill an enemy with a slightly better weapon than yours?
-There is no "skill-based point system" in Ryzom. In fact, the lack of it is one of the most inovative portions of the game. Stanzas increase options and strategies, not template/player viability or power.
-Lets not call them schematics per say... how about special (mutated) creature parts that relay an inovative "idea" to a crafter? A claw shaped an unusual way... Fur with an unusual striping pattern...etc. But honestly Korin, to apply realism to your critism is in itself ubsurd. (how could creatures carry schematics...) Do you really think that you could carry 27 Moderate (or larger) Kipee shells on your back all the way to town so a crafter can make you a set of armor? Or how exactly do you make armor "Stuffing" from oil?
Come to think of it.... exactly how can a thousand different crafters make armor that ALL LOOKS EXACTLY THE SAME? Now there is something to "give you a break" over....quite impossible in fact.
-Sap Crystals are ONE USE items, and looting one that would fill up the Sap Load of a player's sword with one use would be at best insignificant to the economy, while giving a pure fighter type SOMETHING to loot other than animal appendages.
-You could not kill an enemy with a slightly better weapon than yours?
-There is no "skill-based point system" in Ryzom. In fact, the lack of it is one of the most inovative portions of the game. Stanzas increase options and strategies, not template/player viability or power.
-Lets not call them schematics per say... how about special (mutated) creature parts that relay an inovative "idea" to a crafter? A claw shaped an unusual way... Fur with an unusual striping pattern...etc. But honestly Korin, to apply realism to your critism is in itself ubsurd. (how could creatures carry schematics...) Do you really think that you could carry 27 Moderate (or larger) Kipee shells on your back all the way to town so a crafter can make you a set of armor? Or how exactly do you make armor "Stuffing" from oil?
Come to think of it.... exactly how can a thousand different crafters make armor that ALL LOOKS EXACTLY THE SAME? Now there is something to "give you a break" over....quite impossible in fact.
-Sap Crystals are ONE USE items, and looting one that would fill up the Sap Load of a player's sword with one use would be at best insignificant to the economy, while giving a pure fighter type SOMETHING to loot other than animal appendages.