Ryzom

Hi guys,

As promised, a few thoughts from my side regarding these topics: When discussing the popularity and need for PvP-related features in Ryzom, we have to keep a few things in mind, for instance that Ryzom is constantly being developed further, a game world that constantly evolves and grows. The new PvP-features are just one of many aspects in the game, adding to its overall variety.

This time, the focus was mainly on FvF wars and the next time the focus could be on something completely different. That's part of a normal development process, during which the developers have to take many important factors into account. As previously stated, it isn't always easy to satisfy everyone's needs at once, because we all have different interests, ideas and suggestions. Finding a good balance between them over time and making the game enjoyable for everyone is a challenge, but it is one of our main goals and the development team will always strive to get closer to that goal.

In case of Episode 2, mainly introducing the conflict between the various groups and factions, the Kami and Karavan in particular, PvP elements had to play a big role of course. A game world without any sort of conflict, without ways to compete with other players, factions or guilds wouldn't be very entertaining in the long run. But apart from a necessary focus on FvF wars in Episode 2, the events team always tries to include non-PvP and roleplaying-oriented aspects (which can be two different things) too.

That means there will of course not only be pvp-oriented elements and events in the future, but also other interesting features. Some of them roleplaying-oriented, others intended for general interest and socially-oriented players. Future episodes may include completely different fun stuff and David and Jessica sometimes give us a sneek peak at them in their letters, but obviously they can't go ahead and go into detail too much during earlier development stages. We all know how much these things can change as time passes by, and we've seen what happens if we announce features too early. The team has learned from that, but of course there will be more detailed information on any upcoming major content updates as soon as it becomes available. Once the developers are done with the work on Episode 2, they can focus on the next milestone and we'll try to keep you guys in the loop on what's cooking behind the scenes, through announcements and the player information sections on the official website.

Respectfully submitted,
Lawrence

lawrence wrote: In case of Episode 2, mainly introducing the conflict between the various groups and factions, the Kami and Karavan in particular, PvP elements had to play a big role of course. A game world without any sort of conflict, without ways to compete with other players, factions or guilds wouldn't be very entertaining in the long run. But apart from a necessary focus on FvF wars in Episode 2, the events team always tries to include non-PvP and roleplaying-oriented aspects (which can be two different things) too.

This is the part that i totally dissagrees with.
I don't like any form of PvP and I strongly belive that PvP is in no way a necessary element to make Ryzom more fun.

But then again you don't actually say that PvP is necessary, you only say we need to be able to compete with eachother. Well I kinda agree with that. But that is just one more reason to have made AD a non pvp area. I think it would haev worked out better for all players i it had been.

lawrence wrote:In case of Episode 2, mainly introducing the conflict between the various groups and factions, the Kami and Karavan in particular, PvP elements had to play a big role of course. A game world without any sort of conflict, without ways to compete with other players, factions or guilds wouldn't be very entertaining in the long run. But apart from a necessary focus on FvF wars in Episode 2, the events team always tries to include non-PvP and roleplaying-oriented aspects (which can be two different things) too.

Like lennie12, I think this is one area where Nevrax is a little misdirected. You say that competition between players is necessary to make things entertaining. First of all, I think that's very debatable. Huge kitin invasions where we all work together against a common foe or working together to build a portal to a new land could be very entertaining.

However, the part I think where things really go wrong is equating this need for competition between players with needing PvP combat.

I've said it many times on these forums... competition between players does NOT have to be in the form of PvP combat. Sure, you can always say, "we have ways for harvesters to contribute in the current event". However, you've made it so harvesters can only contribute in the context of a full PvP combat zone.

I think you need to realize that there's lots of ways players could be made to compete without being forced into a PvP combat situation.

I sincerely believe that the major outcry from Episode 2 is not due to a fundamental dislike of competition with other players. It's the fact that you've focused that competition entirely in a PvP combat context.

Yuppers ^^

Thanks for the response Lawrence, even though I think we were hoping for more of an official Nevrax reaction.

With that, the community has been asking if Ryzom has a "need for PvP" (combat) "related features"? It is of course good to develop features towards every playstyle, and bad to only develop content for one playstyle and penalize players for not taking part in it.

But still no answer to that.

lawrence wrote:we have to keep a few things in mind, for instance that Ryzom is constantly being developed further, a game world that constantly evolves and grows. The new PvP-features are just one of many aspects in the game, adding to its overall variety.

Looking at the main Ryzom page, PvP is the only feature being worked on by reading the news. The fact that the game is "constantly evolving" into something which isn't friendly towards the non-PvPers is what is driving a big segment and larger potential segment of the playerbase away.

This time, the focus was mainly on FvF wars and the next time the focus could be on something completely different.

Could be is quite vague. Anything "could" be, I could win the lottery but I'm not about to start buying tickets because I know what the odds are. If the focus is going to be something different sometime, well then Nevrax would have to already be designing or coding it. We have no sign of either, and plenty of sign that players will get more PvP crammed down their throats whether they like it or not.

As previously stated, it isn't always easy to satisfy everyone's needs at once, because we all have different interests, ideas and suggestions.

No, but it generally is possible to appeal to a broad segment. In any industry it is usually a bad idea in western culture to snub a set of customers for another set of customers while the first group is watching.

In case of Episode 2, mainly introducing the conflict between the various groups and factions, the Kami and Karavan in particular, PvP elements had to play a big role of course.

No, they didn't. We could just as effectively race to build the temples with or without PvP (combat). A race is also a player vs player competition, it just lacks the hostile nature. Is Football or the Tour de France not competitive because they aren't killing each other? Can not two religions compete for adherents without war? Can two political parties compete for votes without street fights?

A game world without any sort of conflict, without ways to compete with other players, factions or guilds wouldn't be very entertaining in the long run.

Then why have people been so interested in Outposts prior to the PvP announcements? Why were Kitin raids so popular in beta and events after release? Why do people enjoy rites?

But apart from a necessary focus on FvF wars in Episode 2, the events team always tries to include non-PvP and roleplaying-oriented aspects (which can be two different things) too.

Roleplayer and PvPer are not two mutually exclusive groups. Many players can be both, I would guess that most players however are neither.

1st of all many popular roleplaying aspects are being excluded from game mechanics. Followers of Tryton, those neutral to the Kami Vs. Karavan conflict, those who are passionate followers of Kami or Karavan and not murderous Crusader/Jihadists.

None of this is new, this discussion has been going on for ages in this forum and Nevrax has been ignoring it just as surely as they ignored all the balance and bug complaints about patch 1.

Also just like Patch 1, it is obvious that the good folks at Jolt are working hard and taking the brunt of player frustration. When the problem lies not with Jolt or its employees but with Nevrax and their dogged development and implementation of features the main customer-base is opposed to.

I assume we all want to see this game grow and Nevrax prosper and I hope we can urge them to appeal to their broadest customer base and lost customer base. I'm certain the current development focus of PvP combat will not do that.

Thanks for your consideration Lawrence.

- Svayvti

ok, here is how i see the future of things to come...

[ N E W A N I M A T I O N S ]
[ P V P ]
[ T I T L E S . C H A N G E ]
[ G L O B A L F A C T I O N P V P ]
[ O U T P O S T S ]


now unless i am mistaken, the last Poll, approx 50% of players wanted new animations, personally i hated them. but this is only a change to how we see things, i dont consider this Content.
Nevrax wants to change how something looks, give us the Wings VFX back on our spells that so many ppl loved & remove the stupid animation of jumping in the air to cast.

Title changes... yeah, this i agree with, but do i consider it content, NO.

now the other 3, they are all PVP related, this is what Nevrax has in its plans, from short term to long term.

so yeah, PvP is being shoved down our throats, Nevrax cant deny it, check out the plans for yourself. Non-PvPers look at those plans, yeah they are gonna get bored real fast if they arent already, they know for at least the next 4 Patches, their will be nothing new for them, only more Server downtime while the PvPers get their NEW CONTENT.

lawrence wrote:Hi guys,

As promised, a few thoughts from my side regarding these topics:

We have heard this before and we see what you have done....no real need to explain it. What we have yet to see is any of the alternatives that have been put forth by the non pVp adherentsb addressed. How will any of them affect your plans for PvP....to my estimation, not at all.

You got people to hang around for a year to see new content and this is what they got. Obviously you can see many are not happy with it. We all waited fanxiously for outposts. Few seem thrilled about the possibility of working 3 - 6 months for an outpost only to have it taken away by some combat hungry uber leet guild. We waited a year for episode 2.

Do you think, considering the failure to appease what all these peeps were waiting for for the last 12 months.... that being working together to defend outposts against kitin raiods utilizing the "famed" Nevrax raid engine, that these peeps are going to hang around another year on vague promises that "something, but we ain't gonna tell you what" is coming" ? They didn't get what they expected after the 1st year of waiting, they ain't gonan sit around for anotehr.....the old saying "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me" applies.\

You have had presented numerous alternatives which, with very little effort on nevrax's part would make the existing PvP system acceptable to the majority of those not interested in PvP. You have addressed none of them.

You got your coders busy and made a "patch to the patch" which was released in a few days. Many of the changes being asked for would require comparable effort but no effort is being put forth to do so.

The message you are giving out is "We are very interested in your feedback and will work to accomodate your desires and interests as long as they fit into our predetermined plan for making Ryzon a clone of all the other PvP games. Otherwise, thanks for your input but as far as us actually doing anything, you are SOL, our plan is set fior the next 12 months."

I was away friday and saturday, logged in on sunday to find one of my fellow guild officers on. After asking where everyone was, the answer I was given was that only 3 of the guild's 10 officers and 1 of our other members (112 total) was on the entire weekend. With the holidays approaching and peeps looking for new game to spend their money on, you have to be cognizant that the chatter here in the forums and the prevalance of "Goodbye, I am leaving:" threads is not likely to result in a big spike of holiday sales. Since the introduction of this FvF activity, you have now provided a suignificant patch tot he original island's workings, created a new PvP island, and informed us of worldwide PvP. How hard would it have been to throw that new island to the non-PvP crowd ?