Ryzom

grimjim wrote:When outposts were first mentioned the thought that I think many of us had was of trading outposts and outlaying guild headquarters. Some sort of bonus for the guild.

Not for an excuse for a ruck.

And with the player base we have, what makes you think that that will change? Some of the best ones will be fought over, but with all the outposts there are out there in all the lands, there won't be that much actual PvP, at least not for the non-combative ones. Could be wrong.

Noh
Zorai
Officer of Infinity

I can understant mages shift health+sap use to more sap use, but what people gonna do with ability give more stamina for fighters?

What's the point of healer having more sap and stamina giving possibilities, if the fighters and mages are dead, because You can't keep they health up. Lowering health healing is good only if fighters are able to do the tanking job. What they currently can't do without healers.

But it's pointless to argue about it, without actually testing how it works.

Sorry, thought that outposts was a major drawing point for Ryzom. And outposts are, by default, PvP, in some form or other. So that whole 'PvP is forced on us, SoR does not need PvP.' is wrong.

You are missing a large part of the point, Noh.

We have been specifically told that PvP is a way to give the high level players something do to, in order to reduce the cries for more content.

From that, we can deduce that PvP != content, even for Nevarax.
We are being given PvP in place of content.
Most of us would prefere actual content over PvP.

Again, wholly outside of the benifits or drawbacks of a healing change. It might be that sort of realignement is what we need...BUT the impetus for doing it was entirely for PvP. It would not have been changed otherwise.

Outpost need not be "by default, PvP" there are a lot of great directions that Nevarax could take with them. Implement guild missions, require special mats, allow crafters and harvester to actually build the outpost, provide bonuses for having and improving your outpost, defend the outpost against AI aggressors.

I stand firmly by the statemnt that "SoR does not need PvP", and I know that most of the players agree with me.

Thinking on this further, it seems the current roadmap for SoR is an attempt to avoid having to create new content. Encyclopedias are going no where, we have no idea of the scope or quality of the upcoming events, and we have been told that instead of content, we get PvP. Additionally, we are, eventually, being given tools to let US create content...but get this: WE HAVE TO PAY FOR IT. So, in addition to doing the work that the dev team should be doing, and in addition to providing the community with what we are desperatly crying for, we get to pay for the privelage of doing so. Amazing, simply amazing.

grimjim wrote:When outposts were first mentioned the thought that I think many of us had was of trading outposts and outlaying guild headquarters. Some sort of bonus for the guild.

Not for an excuse for a ruck.

Few from FBT think that way I bet...

I am concerned that so many of you are making claims that are not consistant with the game we tested for months my friend. We "played" the game that we first had a feel for during Open Beta 1... now that was a sweet mutha that was so much fun folks lined up for a chance to be a part of the team that was going to help tweak the game.

I (like many of us old timers) was absolutely fortunate that thru either our massive feedback or gametime had a chance to be a part of the FBT. Being a part of FBT Melinoe with Takashi and Azhrarn was both a job and a pleasure. We tested PvP, and to a VERY limited extent Outposts... Outposts were NOT added to cater to high level folks, they were and always have been an integral part of why some of us are still here...

Without Outposts and the like anyone at level 250 in any ONE skill (never mind the rest of us that may have several) is limited... though I try and take part in RP things that your guild does and some of the RP from the CSR team... that stuff is instant potatoes... I like my mashed taters to have more substance my friend.

Personally for me (DT), your guild has helped me enjoy that slice of the pie much more... MUCH moreso than what the CSR RP stuff has done because I feel yer purpose and you hold to it. Please stop suggesting that PvP/Outposts is new stuff added to appease those of us that are not in the Thesos bar flexing all day (hehehe). It has and will always be a big reason some of us have hung around... this awesome engine has had a goal and we have been watching.

You RP folks could tell your tales in a game that is crappy, this is not a crappy game but it is also not close to the game that many of us tested and worked like hell to make better...

P.S. Please don't tell anyone that I (not DT) have found Samsara to be a good part of SoR... it'll ruin DT's rep for just wanting to knock heads...

PS2 - Shad, I so disagree with you on this as noted above...
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sofiaoak wrote:Actually, Mage should never be able to stand in "close" combat and cast spells like notting happen without using consenrate stanzas. Mages aren't the tanks, fighters should be tanks.

No, but mages should be able to ... kill something half their level that aggros them into melee. Should be able to solo before hitting level 125 reasonably.

I'm a level 51 Elemental mage... nobody my level range to team with and finding it near impossible to solo.

Plus keep in mind, once heal is nerfed and armor buffed there is another way that mages won't be able to keep up inmelee nearly as well as fighters. Not a problem, but lets not create too huge a disparity for soloing. It is enough that all the other branches of magic require a team anyways.

svayvti wrote:No, but mages should be able to ... kill something half their level that aggros them into melee. Should be able to solo before hitting level 125 reasonably.

I'm a level 51 Elemental mage... nobody my level range to team with and finding it near impossible to solo.

Mages should kill anyting what it can nuke to dead before it reach close combat. Mage soloing does not come from ability stand next to enemies, but higher damage to nuke enemies dead from range. These isn't some miragle protection for solo mage, when they get unexpected aggro, because they where careless. Ryzom isn't safe place to walk around.

What I'm saying, mage casting in close combat is doing someting wrong. Mage's should not be close combat fighter with high damage "magic sword". Consenrate stanzas just gives mage ability to finish what did go wrong in first place. Hole point is to make the fighters and mages roles different, not similar.

sidusar wrote:What I really had to say in response to the original post was just:
- No in the way they're currently proposing.
- Yes if it's compensated by a decent increase in armor effectiveness (from 45%-55% to 40%-60% is not even an increase, let alone a decent one).
That is all.

Ok I'll give you that one.

sidusar wrote:I don't think tanks are useless, just that they're less usefull than healers and nukers. They do save the mages from getting interrupts. My point was more it's perfectly possible for an elementalist and a healer to hunt without a tank. The elementalist will get interrupted, but the healer can keep him alive easily, it just takes a little longer.

Plus as elementalist you have the benefit of being able to immediatly switch to healing if the party needs you to, or to heal your healer back. As a fighter in heavy armor, you can't really do that, so you'd think the heavy armor would offer some awesome protection to compensate, and it just doesn't. My opinion remains the same, increase all max vs by about 30% and make armor work against mob special attacks, and I'll be happy.

Cant argue with that either. Except to say I have different amps for heal and elem so I do have to pause to switch one piece of gear, though probably still quicker than a tank in full heavy trying to heal!

sehracii wrote:Is it easier to heal from a broken leg or to rest up from a mile jog?
Even magic has limitations.

No it doesn't that's why it's magic!
YES in RL a broken leg takes longer than regaining your breath after a jog but this ISN'T RL it's MAGIC!! (sorry getting sick of stating the obvious!)

kratos84 wrote:That's assuming stam and sap heal are equally important as hp heal ... I don't think they are.

Thank you, my point exactly! How many times must I say "you can't DIE from stam loss"?!

myseren wrote:sorry, i just want you to explain why you think its gonna be harder for new players if heal is weakened.

Because they will not be able to keep the team alive as easily as higher lvl healers, unless you have say 5 or 6 of them in your team!

vguerin wrote:Few from FBT think that way I bet...

Well I played in FBT and I DO think that way. I agree totally with Jyudas on that. Outposts don't HAVE to be about conflict.

sofiaoak wrote:I can understant mages shift health+sap use to more sap use, but what people gonna do with ability give more stamina for fighters?

What's the point of healer having more sap and stamina giving possibilities, if the fighters and mages are dead, because You can't keep they health up. Lowering health healing is good only if fighters are able to do the tanking job. What they currently can't do without healers.

But it's pointless to argue about it, without actually testing how it works.

Didn't I make that point already?

Bottom line is we don't have a choice in this and the majority (of forum readers) appear in favour. We'll just have to suck it and see. I just don't want to hear any whining about healing being too weak later on folks! No complaining about the fact you die more often either!

My major concern all along (and the reason I have spoken out against these changes) is the direction I feel Nevrax are taking the game I love. Weakening heal to make PvP last longer? Forcing PvP on the whole planet? If, as I fear, PvP becomes rife and we get the griefers in here, I will leave. I'm sure I wont be the only one. If they make the whole of Atys PvP, there will be nowhere for those of use who HATE PvP to go. This will not be the game I signed up for anymore.

svayvti wrote:I'm a level 51 Elemental mage... nobody my level range to team with and finding it near impossible to solo.

Actually it is true that on lower ( < 50 with very good equipment, < 80 with average equipment) ele is harder to solo than melee most of the times since the mob will reach you before you can kill it, and if you get too many resists or interruptions, you are dead.

I think ele should be boosted on lower levels. Maybe make the brick level = player level + 15 rule apply for lvl0 - lvl70 aswell? At the moment only from lvl85 in magic is it true that you get a spell brick that is 15 levels higher, and so deals more damage. And iirc from my past experiences as low level elementalist -- my primary combat skills always were and still are healing and nuking -- it was around lvl80-90 when things started to become easier while hunting solo.


About the poll: you asking if I want apples or oranges. Well I want apples but only if I also get a banana

Voted yes for heal being weakened. Mage teams are far too effective and hopefully this will lessen that. If a mage draws aggro or doesn't have a tank to begin with, they should die.

As for tanks, hopefully with the new armor things they are putting in they will be a lot more surviveable (honestly not looking too good). If not, all the rebalancing changes will go to s**t. Personally I think they need more ways to hold aggro from a mob in order to be truly effective.

Sap/Stam being increased will be a good thing, I believe, as it will help to diminish the amount of HP being lost by mages/fighters alike (Burning HP creds + malus additions in fighters case). If you are encouraged to use Sap/Stam more than HP credits because they can be healed more effectively, why wouldn't you? Expecially if it means you won't die and potentially have a party wipe on your hands. If using max HP credits is no longer viable for survival, it wouldn't be all that smart to use them all the time.

PvP is fun. However, I doubt this game will become a gankers paradise anytime soon as there are better options for them out there. Again, hopefully the faction changes they intend to put in (the real ones, not the temporary ones) will have some controlling factor for those that like to play the bad guy. If not, I still doubt that PvP will ever get out of control with this games playerbase.

kwhopper wrote: PvP is fun. However, I doubt this game will become a gankers paradise anytime soon as there are better options for them out there. Again, hopefully the faction changes they intend to put in (the real ones, not the temporary ones) will have some controlling factor for those that like to play the bad guy. If not, I still doubt that PvP will ever get out of control with this games playerbase.

You should have been here in beta. I recall at one point, after one of the merges IIRC, there were loads of them.

If they make PvP planet wide and non-consensual (i.e. you can be attacked without having to accept), this game will definitley (as you put it) go to s**t IMHO.