Ryzom

vguerin, I agree with La Riva. I am not of the same guild.

and guys vguerin is disagreeing with me, not La Riva. I think he agrees that there should be supreme mats if only for colors (My main reason to). He doesn't agree with the implementation. That's fine. I don't care if he's a cheater. There's a lot of other people who are not that are pretty high to. Not as high per say, but still enough to screw them over.

The whole xp thing was why I didn't like my own idea about the PR. Aside from that I kept PR the same. IMO being able to have a choice of what colors and mats to dig while maintaining pr level isn't to bad. People think different. fine. anyone else have ideas?

Aside from that I put a bunch of stuff about overland terrain and ways to get materials aside from just 'max fog setting' that a lot of people can't handle. I have to prospect constantly for certain mats between side digs for lesser quality stuff. When I do it...it's a guess because the fog well it's kinda there...or sometimes it totally is, or sometimes it totally isn't. Crap, I've even had the same mat that pops in all these weather conditions pop in both rain and sun.

Sure we could say 'fix the weather settings!' if we wanted to. I just think that it's boring when the environment offers us so many options. It was just for fun.

Btw Raynes, I grew up in Texas. I spent summers on the lake in a sailboat. I lived in gentle rolling hills and traveled through deserts and plains a like. I camped along numerous rivers. I rode horses through forests and I even vacationed south at the Gulf of Mexico. Houston is terribly humid. Dallas isn't so bad but in the summer it is. Pretty cool on the coast. The fall has more rain than I've seen in california. Torrential storms that flood the streets with water, ice and snow that shut down all of suburbia until sand can be spread and roads cleared. Hail larger than marbles, green grass and perfect weather in the spring. No you don't know Texas.

I don't like the idea of all supremes in the nexus. The idea of materials following some sort of geographic outline appeals to me.

I strongly beleive there should be race specific supreme mats or any race specific high level forager should be able to dig out supreme mats without raising prime roots foraging. I wanted to get opionions as to how it should be accomplished and if not see constructive critisism as to why not.

As my opinion is right now:

If someone would have told me there are no supreme q250 mats in race specific areas - I would not have bothered getting over 200 in forest foraging; instead i would have leveled prime roots, and be done with it. After all, I primarily dig to facilititate good weapons and armor (I'm looking for stats, you are looking for colors - no difference). If i can not get good stats from being lvl 250 forest/lake/desert/jungle forager - why in the world would i waste my valuable in-game time by digging race specific mats and then waste the same amount of time digging prime roots mats when i could have jumped directly to prime roots?

if a story tellers/ developers want to point out that prime roots is the cream of the crop - that is fine, in that case, dont allow anyone below level 250 forage in roots - period - get poeple to become celestial harvesters (or whatever the title is) in their race (at least) and then move onto prime roots.

It simply does not make any sense the way it is right now.

josephm wrote:vguerin, I agree with La Riva. I am not of the same guild...

Yeah I know. That's why I wanted change. I think my idea goes a little crazy with variation because of an over-reaction to the PR format that we're all supposed to follow. I think it's terrible to. I wasted my time harvesting which I thought was fun at first. So when I stopped I started doing elem...but just fighting is boring. I don't want to trudge back through the levels in pr no matter how fast I can get there with high levels cping me, nor do I want to raise my forage much anymore.

I just dig grind for guildees now, but they ask me to find or get excellent mats. I've pretty much forgotten all the specifics. I had a ton in the jungle memorized. It was fun for a while, until I realized that all the time and danger I was going through was never going to be good for anything but a grind.

I wouldn't say I'm burnt out. When you find out you've wasted all your time though, you hold a little resentment and fear that you'll be doing it again, or even more fear that this game isn't really able to pull of the 'diverse open ended system' that is has promised with limitations like this.

Hello again folks,

Well, let's keep on discussing this subject that is nonetheless interesting, and the original poster submitted a valid question. But there are 2 different issues here. The (apparent) lack of supremes in lands other than Prime Roots -I seem to be able to track supremes in GoC, although oos-, and changing the Prime roots foraging. In my previous posts, I did not state (at least, that was not exaclty my intention) that I was against the idea of adding supremes in other lands (that would benefit me, being high level in 3 lands). Just some issues. Let me toss some ideas (I'm not defending anything, open to debate)

* What would happen to the Prime root foraging tree? even , to prime root foraging in general? the question goes the other sense as well: Why would I dig in Prime Roots if I can get the supremes in my own land? no PvP, safer, etc. All-race crafting? that's barely the only reason I can see, and will it justify to work in 2 different trees, meaning double time?

A possible solution (just tossing ideas, nothing concrete) would be to add SOME supremes in the different lands, but not all, thus favouring diversity and trading between harvesters, e.g. oath in matis, big shell in tryker, and dzao in Zora, etc... There are also bad points: a) race specific crafts:can a supreme lake big shell used to craft a Matis pike? no... It used to be like this in older betas (some mats were only found in some continents) and apparently it did not work. b) Harvesters don't seem to trade/sell much, c)...

* Some suggested "put the supremes in q250 zones" or "only lvl 250 harvesters can go to roots" or similar ideas...Well, why can't a lvl 100 harvester get supremes then? why can't a crafter craft a supreme Q100 pike of damage?. I tend to think that level difference is, right now, just a matter of scale. By allowing most uber things only to high levels (some must be, like boss mobs), we don't make it easy for low level players and crafters. Only lvl 200 harvesters can? I can then see the high level harvesters and crafters flooding the bottom market.

* Lariva answered to Ifritan (hello ifritan, don't forget to chase me down in Umbra ) that foragers don't compete over resources. yes, they do. Supremes deplete after 70 or so. Right now, it is first come first served, usually, the lucky one that's there after a reboot.... it is not because until now, I have not seen 8 foragers at the same spot at "sup up" that they don't compete.

* Other suggestions "Add supremes in boss locations, heavy aggro, pack of cuttlers", etc. I'm afraid this would mean that most supremes can then only be gathered by large guilds?

* Suggestion "Add branches so foragers specialize in excellent/supreme mats". Those "finesse" foragers can dig less choice/basic/mats. Thoughts? How are they supposed to level harvesting?, hard to level a branch if you can only level it digging exc+



In summary... Nevrax must be aware of all the balancing issues regarding harvesting, we cannot focus on one aspect of the game only. And yes, as I stated in my first post, I'm biased and I don't want to see my work disappear. Yes, the system could be better balanced. I've been honest. But, my turn to ask. I did not see a post of a forest forager complaining that racial supremes could only be found in nexus (only now, but asking supremes in q250 zones which makes me think that the system seemed "fine" until topped at q200... "uhm how do I craft amplifiers now?"). What are lariva and techlord forest and PR foraging levels? are the suggested changes going to favor some players? How do we know that the players that voted the majority are not mainly 200+ in land and 51 in PR? adding supremes to lvl 250 harvesters... won't this affect to players that are 100/100/100/100/100 rather than 230/51/51/51/51 ? It will be harder to find a reason to dig in other branches than your own land, only for points...

So. What about "in the sake of balance""/for the next 7 years" balance harvesting, apply your suggested changes, remove PR tree, whatever changes you may come up with *to new characters only*? hard to implement. Don't tell me "I did not know there were not supremes in racial lands"... well, you did know that they were, at least, much, much, harder to find, unless in nexus, of course.


Are we *all* willing to give up some hard work for the sake of balance, not only Prime Root foragers? (I remember a guy who had specialized in PR foraging, he was 150 and all the rest of branches were low level... Removing DP was hell for him, most times getting more DP just due to kinchers and patrols.) what about creating a new branch at lvl *50* that is specialized in tracking/pulling supremes?, getting XP everytime a source is tracked/found, even oos, and finding a way that the levelling rate is "on pair" with other skills?


Offtopic: I'm sad to see that some players still consider foraging pre-patch 1 a "cheat" or exploit. It was not. The gameplay allowed it, no word from GMs/Nevrax regarding this subject and it was hard to do otherwise (who would willingly *reduce* the XP they are getting?). It was unbalanced? yes. We were progressing too fast? yes. On the other hand "the grass is not greener". I've heard some players stating "I wish I had harvested pre-patch 1". Let me remind you that while we were *harvesting* hunters were hunting and getting 3k per mob in less than 1 minute using blind1. At the same time that I was 100 forest forager, I saw archmages. Until last week, I was 70 melee. I wish I had hunted more prepatch1,then. Am I complaining? no. Should I take it no one was allowed to neither harvest nor hunt prepatch1?

Don't forget that just after patch1 mobs were insane, and that a lot of players were digging and crafting 9h+ a day (I was). Finally, do not state that players like DT went to 230 or 240 "cheating" that's wrong and offensive. I know a few melees that are 230 in pike and 200+ in mace and sword. Were they cheating? of course not. the reason? those high level foragers spend an insane amount of hours digging. So don't blame on harvesters prepatch 1. We were all (except crafters) progressing too fast.

Finally, I congratulate you lariva, yes honestly. You were crafting q150 swords prepatch1, and WITHOUT plevelling getting 3k per 1 mat, maybe not in PR, but in forest?, If you did get 3k per 1 mat, then the comment to DT was slightly uncalled for. I was impressed by wylkroe's 150 pikes having a well-coordinated whole guild of dedicated harvesters feeding him.

It bothers me that there seems to be no supreme racial mats in any place other than nexus, and excel racial mats seem to be of the second tuesday if it's cloudy in moscow style spawns. I'd like to see them address the problem at some point... but before they spend even more dev time revamping and tweaking harvesting for the third (fourth?) time, I'd like to see them actually address a fix for a certain tree that has not been addressed since early beta.

tetra wrote:but before they spend even more dev time revamping and tweaking harvesting for the third (fourth?) time, I'd like to see them actually address a fix for a certain tree that has not been addressed since early beta.

I am going on a long shot on this one, but would that certain skill tree start with a "R" and ends with an "E" and is a five-letter word?

R
A
N
G
E

?
?
?

lol Xcom.

iphdrunk, you can stop bringing up the disappearence of the PR forage and the questions about it's 'balance'. I myself addressed that point when I suggested it. Like I said I couldn't see a way around it, and it was the only thing that tore down the whole idea. I was looking for other ways of implementation. No one has come up with one, so lets all just agree to ignore that point.

As far as levels go, why do they concern you? Why does it matter that someone has 250 in lake dig? There are plenty of named mobs with armies under them that are much harder than many PR spots that would have a valid option to harvest superb. Any level 50 could tell you that if supreme belonged in CoI they belong under Rakya. I hate that leveling comparison. That's why I don't care if anyone used 3k pre-patch 1 or not.

Right now IP, it's nearly impossible to get lots of excellent mats in the overland terrain. Last night I was in the void and ran to big shell. Tried a prospect, got weather message. Expected it. Waited for rain to stop. Nice and sunny, and I prospect...not items in the area. Ok could you explain that to me? that's not a seasonal or night time message. I sat down and stood up.

All this for excellent mats? I'd rather have all excellent mats covered in kincher so I wouldn't have to put up with this b*llsh*t. The system sucks IP. having supreme and excellent that are easy to find and get in PR does not make it harder imo (200M from a TP 100% safe is moon resin and yana wood.....a little further out, also safe because patrols are gone, sarina seed). My PR forage may not be that high, but what's fun for me is 'finding' the node. I leveled jungle because I thought I wouldn't do the PR rush and have the different supreme colors when I was high level so that I could outfit my guild in different colors.


For me the process is 'getting there', and in PR there is a payoff. I don't need to rip the good stuff out right then like your typical harvester. Then I bring my guild and we grab what we need when we need it without wasting to much time....then they hunt, maybe I'll work off DP, before I split to find more mats. In jungle there is no payoff of sitting there for 2 hours with 2 other guildies to pull 130 excellent big shell. It kills the fun factor.

You may think PR is supposed to have the best and every pr harvester tries to 'scare off' non pr harvesters with how hard it is to level up there...but lariva and I? my entire guild almost? If my guild alone moves to PR, that's 25 new root harvesters who have pr specs and know how to plevel the **** out of people. In essence IP, your mats and eq will degrade eventually. Nothing you have will be worth anything. So you won't be as happy as you were for being specialized. And we won't be happy because we don't want that specialization.

> you can stop bringing up the disappearence of the PR forage

True, my fault, I was just trying to summarize the points in the thread


> As far as levels go, why do they concern you? Why does it matter that someone has 250 in lake dig? There are plenty of named mobs with armies

You misunderstood me. I meant I don't think you should be 250 to bea able to dig supremes.


>under them that are much harder than many PR spots that would have a valid option to harvest superb.

I think we agree on this point. I said that supremes should be allowed at any quality interval.


> Right now IP, it's nearly impossible to get lots of excellent mats in the overland terrain.

I know, that is why I went to dig to PR.

> Ok could you explain that to me? that's not a seasonal or night time message. I sat down and stood up.

no, I can't.

>The system sucks IP. having supreme and excellent that are easy to find and get in PR does not make it harder imo (200M from a TP 100% safe is moon resin and yana wood....).

I don't imply that the harvesting system is flawless and can't be improved, but you seem to miss the fact that supremes deplete at 70 mats and excellents at 140, so basically I Pull 95% of choice (if weather allows, of course), and yes, I know of the "free mats", but I don't seem to be able to find "free clothes" and even harder after q200.


>more mats. In jungle there is no payoff of sitting there for 2 hours with 2 other guildies to pull 130 excellent big shell. It kills the fun factor.



>You may think PR is supposed to have the best and every pr harvester tries to 'scare off' non pr harvesters

what? scare off? I just keep on encouraging people to go dig there. But yes, I always considered Prime Roots as the place to get the best


>In essence IP, your mats and eq will degrade eventually. Nothing you have will be worth anything. So you won't be as happy as you were for being specialized.

specialized? no. I'm high level, yes. Basically my PR, desert and forest are the same.

I seriously don't understand what you are trying to tell me. I am for putting supreme mats in all the regions, just trying to see the interest in digging in prime roots then.

I guess I just took your post in a different light. thanks for taking the time to answer though. I wonder how hard it is. remember when they did the last revamp on locations? everything loads in pretty much one or two spots per region.

I'd still prefer content revamps over all of this...

lariva wrote: If someone would have told me there are no supreme q250 mats in race specific areas - I would not have bothered getting over 200 in forest foraging;

You went to level 200 harvesting before realizing this on your own? Come on you had have realized the reason people were digging in prime roots sometime on your way to 200 lvls in harvesting. "The Prime roots are home to a host of mysterious relics from the past as well as a wide range of resources that can be found nowhere else." That should have at the very least made a person think what these resources were and that they might not be available above ground?

lariva wrote: If i can not get good stats from being lvl 250 forest/lake/desert/jungle forager - why in the world would i waste my valuable in-game time by digging race specific mats and then waste the same amount of time digging prime roots mats when i could have jumped directly to prime roots?

Its easier and safer to level forest/lake/desert/jungle than prime roots. Come on desert is ridiculously easy up to 200 zones. Forest and Jungle are both fairly easy all the way up to 250 zones. Lakeis fairly easy up to a 150 zone at least (cant be sure of 150+ since lake is my weakest forage skill and have spent the least amount of time on it). Even if you dont agree its easier and safer then along your way to 200+ you had to have noticed that excellent was the most you could get above ground.

Lastly, what do you consider good stats? Come on excellent is avaiable and has stats that can only be beat by supremes which are the best. You can get good stats you just cant get "the best" stats.