Ryzom

raynes wrote:How can you support the Kami or Karavan without opposing the other? Please explain.

Same way you can be a Christian and still accept people's right to follow other religions. Perhaps you'd have better luck on another server. North Americans are constantly being reminded that racial and religious discrimination are bad things. They might be having trouble breaking away from that, or they just might not want to rp as racists or religious fanatics or fascists.

Some people just plain don't like being told what to do or how to role play. Call them "just plain ornery". That would be me =)

varelse wrote:Same way you can be a Christian and still accept people's right to follow other religions. Perhaps you'd have better luck on another server. North Americans are constantly being reminded that racial and religious discrimination are bad things. They might be having trouble breaking away from that, or they just might not want to rp as racists or religious fanatics or fascists.

Some people just plain don't like being told what to do or how to role play. Call them "just plain ornery". That would be me =)

It's not a matter of being a racist or religious fanatic. It's a matter of reading and understanding what the Kami and the Karavan represent.

From the lore page about the Kami:
Goals
- To eradicate the Goo.
- To retain an equilibrium between flora and fauna and hence preserve their habitat.
- Recruit Homins to their cause
- Oppose the Karavan

Now how can you possibly roleplay that you follow the Kami without opposing the Karavan and without trying to recruit others to follow the Kami?

From the lore page about the Karavan:
Goals :
- Maintain and develop the worship of Jena in preparation for her return
- Protect and conserve the planet against the Goo.
- Consolidate and extend their influence over homins
- Oppose the Kamis and prevent the worship of Elias Tryton from spreading
- Guard the secret of their origin and that of their technology from destructive hands

Now how can you support the Karavan when when of the goals of the Karavan is to oppose the Kamis?

aylwyne wrote:Um, I could do missions for the karavan. That's about the only way to really support them in the game that I see. Yes, this may mean that the Kami view me in a less favorable light (i.e. lower fame number) but it doesn't mean I'm doing something to actively oppose them.

When you do missions for the Karavan, you are helping them. You are doing tasks for them. By the very fact that you are helping the Karavan. The very fact that you are doing tasks for them, you are actively opposing the Kamis. Why do you think your fame would drop? Yes, it's because they will view you in a less favorable light. But why do they view you less favorably? It's because you are helping the ones they oppose.

raynes wrote:It's not a matter of being a racist or religious fanatic. It's a matter of reading and understanding what the Kami and the Karavan represent.

From the lore page about the Kami:
Goals
- To eradicate the Goo.
- To retain an equilibrium between flora and fauna and hence preserve their habitat.
- Recruit Homins to their cause
- Oppose the Karavan

Now how can you possibly roleplay that you follow the Kami without opposing the Karavan and without trying to recruit others to follow the Kami?

From the lore page about the Karavan:
Goals :
- Maintain and develop the worship of Jena in preparation for her return
- Protect and conserve the planet against the Goo.
- Consolidate and extend their influence over homins
- Oppose the Kamis and prevent the worship of Elias Tryton from spreading
- Guard the secret of their origin and that of their technology from destructive hands

Now how can you support the Karavan when when of the goals of the Karavan is to oppose the Kamis?

For exactly the reason I described before. Just because you choose to believe in a group and follow their cause does not mean you have to agree with everything they do.

Perhaps a Karavan player firmly believes in the following:
- Maintain and develop the worship of Jena in preparation for her return
- Protect and conserve the planet against the Goo.
- Guard the secret of their origin and that of their technology from destructive hands

But does not agree with the Karavan stance on these:
- Consolidate and extend their influence over homins
- Oppose the Kamis and prevent the worship of Elias Tryton from spreading

Now some people may choose to blindly follow all decisions of their chosen group, however, some of us choose to use our own judgement on what to believe.

aylwyne wrote:For exactly the reason I described before. Just because you choose to believe in a group and follow their cause does not mean you have to agree with everything they do.

Perhaps a Karavan player firmly believes in the following:
- Maintain and develop the worship of Jena in preparation for her return
- Protect and conserve the planet against the Goo.
- Guard the secret of their origin and that of their technology from destructive hands

But does not agree with the Karavan stance on these:
- Consolidate and extend their influence over homins
- Oppose the Kamis and prevent the worship of Elias Tryton from spreading

Now some people may choose to blindly follow all decisions of their chosen group, however, some of us choose to use our own judgement on what to believe.

You can beleive in individual things and not others. However if you are doing tasks for them, then you are opposing the other. The Karavan does not want the Kami to succeed. If you do a task for the Kami you are helping them succeed. Therefore you are going against the wishes of the Karavan.

It makes no sense that you somehow can help the Karavan, yet not oppose the Kamis.

But going on with your idea. If a player holds those beleifs, then they have to expect other Karavan supporters to go against them. They have to expect Kami supporters to go after them. This idea that there is something wrong with my Kami supporting Zorai preaching or challanging Karavan supporting players is absurd. And this idea that not everyone wants to roleplay like I do, therefore I shouldn't roleplay that way also is absurd.

The lore is there. It is meant to be learned and followed. If other players don't want to learn or follow it, that is their business. But they have no right to expect themselves to be excused from the effects of it, just because they don't want to take part. When you sign in, you become a part of the world that makes of The Saga of Ryzom. You don't join part of the world, you join all of the world.

*/Ropleplay On/*

Being of strong mind and body, I outwardly deny the beliefs of the Kami creatures, all I have found them mildly good for is dinner.

There short stout bodies are way to stringy to be used for such items as armor grip, or even cloth for my children.

There heads make great hood ornaments for my packer, and there skin actually does make for good soft shoes for my packer.

The furry ones that I have seen might make for a great winter coat, although there strong ape like arms has me concerned on how I would take down the beast.

Kami are totally anoying creatures with long pointy fingers, although I have heard rumors that on every sunset, you can witness them picking there nose with them and scratching there butts.

The goals of the Karavan were made clear to me during my childhood, that was to eradicate all Kami presense from the lands, since then, when ever I am with a group of fighters, and we run across a Kami encampment in our territories, we do our best to destroy the encampment, this discouraging them from growing ever more stronger in our midst.

We all have seen the sickened Kami followers amongst us, and from time to time, you can witness a bar brawl or two, as the Kami worshipers are thrown about, for the amusement of the Karavan.

This brings a cheerful tear to my eye, knowing that the Karavan warriors care so much about our lands that they would hurt the Kami as much as they can, at every posibile turn.

Glory to the Kitin that destroy and demolish the Kami, Death to the Kitin who appose the Karavan!

This is the nature of the war on our lands, to remove the Kitin presence and build our defenses, and we cheer on the fact that we hear rumors from afar that the Kami are not as successful at removing them from there lands, this will demolish there armies, destroy there faith, and abolish there resistance for when the Karavan finally invade there lands and destroy there towns.

All Kami need to turn away from there sick and dark desires, and come to the light of the Karavan, so that we can heal your wounds of false prayers and false dieties.

*/Roleplay Off/*

Cookies.. I like Cookies.. Prefferably chocolate chip...

aylwyne wrote:It seems like a lot of people seem to think that RP means you need to be fanatical about following the factions and history in the game. Talk of equating roleplaying with running around trying to "convert" people to kami or karavan, challenging people to PvP because they're the other faction, etc. just reinforces this.

I didn't mean to imply that's the only way to RP. It's perfectly alright (and probably more realistic) if you don't want your character do be a fanatical blade-wielding zealot. I was just saying I would find it fun if some people did RP this kind of characters.

varelse wrote:Perhaps you'd have better luck on another server. North Americans are constantly being reminded that racial and religious discrimination are bad things. They might be having trouble breaking away from that, or they just might not want to rp as racists or religious fanatics or fascists.

No, us Europeans are pretty much constantly reminded the same thing. And if Atys were a real world, I would want all it's homins to live in peace and respect eachother's ideas. But it's not, it's a game, and RP is about playing a role. As such, I believe it would be a very boring world if everybody played in it with this kind of 'live-and-let-live' attitude. People who don't want to actively oppose the Kami/Karavan because they believe religious discrimination is bad have obviously not grasped the concept of RPing.

raynes wrote:It makes no sense that you somehow can help the Karavan, yet not oppose the Kamis.

It does seem to be so that the Kamis and the Karavan are opposed to such an extent that helping one side in any way whatsoever is automaticly seen by the other side as opposing them.

raynes wrote: You ask why running around trying to convert people or challenging others because they are the opposing faction has to be what roleplaying is, well lets discuss this a bit. Using the Kami and Karavan as a example. You as a player decide to follow the Kami. Why are you following the Kami? If you are roleplaying, then the answer is that you beleive in what the Kami preach (If there is another reason, please let me know). As someone who beleives in what the Kami believe, you have to oppose the Karavan. On that same note you have to oppose those who support the Karavan. There is no arguement in that point. To try to say that you can support the Kami while not opposing the Karavan simply shows that you have a lack of knowledge of what either group is about.

Why do I follow the Kami? For the same reason 95% of Texans are Christians. For the same reason 95% of Libyans are Muslim. I'm a Kami follower because I'm Zorai and my parents followed the Kami. I was brought up that way. I've never made a rational choice based on an unbiased comparison of the two cultures. This doesn't mean I have to hate Karavan supporters. I might live next door to one. I'd smile and say hello to him every day even if I wouldn't let his son court my daughter. I'd have no intention of burning his house down, challenging him to a duel, or trying to convert him. I don't have to be a religious zealot to consider myself a Kami follower.

I do agree with you on this: As a Kami follower I would not knowingly do a mission for anyone if it would lower my Kami fame.

Indobi

angus858 wrote: I'd smile and say hello to him every day even if I wouldn't let his son court my daughter.
Indobi

Blasphamy!

/*Roleplay On*/
I'd burn down the Kami's house if I lived next to him, so I could make room for a larger garage...
/*Roleplay Off*/

Did I mention I liked 2% white milk with my chocolate chip cookies?
Makes them soft and moist, easier to eat.
Boy are those chips crunchie and sink to the bottom of the glass.

I take on Aelvana's personality when I play -- very close to mine, but a little different -- therefore I roleplay. This is the natural RP that we all do, whether we think we RP or not. I'll also yell things like "karavan dogs!" when we players are having fun killing each other, say. Why did I choose Kami? Because classically, when I play games or read stories, I like nature spirits better than technology. They're often opposing. This is roleplaying ... is it not?

"hardcore" RP? No. I came to play an open public video game -- a player killing MUD -- not to remain permanently in character in a role I didn't create, as actors on movie sets might.

Just more random and unneccesary thoughts...