WHY?!?!?!?!??!??!!?? (Patch 27 woes)

iphdrunk · Post by **iphdrunk** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:44 pm

zumwalt wrote: This was a very bad post, not very fact driven, and everything about it can be misproven. Please go out, gain levels in lower skills, and die, look at the amount of dp you get, test everything I have posted about dp, you will see that it is not based on max level /10.

Well, IIRC it used to be like I posted, we spent a few days getting this info, I admit I haven't really checked recently, but the DP I am getting has been the same for a long time.

My apologies if I am proven wrong... Respect gainning a few levels in lower skills, well.. I think I'm pretty balanced.

vguerin · Post by **vguerin** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:46 pm

zumwalt wrote:Some facts

This was a very bad post, not very fact driven, and everything about it can be misproven. Please go out, gain levels in lower skills, and die, look at the amount of dp you get, test everything I have posted about dp, you will see that it is not based on max level /10.

Edited for space purposes... but I question if you even play the same game as I do because nearly every statement you made is WRONG. Even worse you were wrong while stating accurate information is wrong... I can remove DP using my highest skill in "9" harvests, I would spend over an hour using lesser skills to remove the same DP.

DP is based solely on your highest skill, mine has been level 230 for a month now as I have completely stopped leveling it and my max DP has not changed since then and I have raised others skills to level 221/126/125 respectively.

My MAX DP never exceeds 3.81 million, even if I have begun to work off DP and find a way to die again. If I log out or d/c, then the amount I have removed is subtracted from the original amount and I now have room under my maximum ceiling to get more DP and the amount worked off is set to zero once again. Otherwise you can NOT exceed a DP of 10X your DP.

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iphdrunk · Post by **iphdrunk** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:51 pm

Unconfirmed

I'm 200+ harvester, I can confirm it. I don't think it's different for a fighter

Wrong, I was over 13 deaths and still got 40k dp a death

Mine is. I've asked a few players, theirs is.

Wrong, again, I can continue to get DP after 10 deaths, or atleast I could from patch 25 on backwards

Well....

Wrong, skill level has nothing to do with it,

Of course it does, getting 3k in any branch will not remove the same amount of DP

You can use any skill that gains you exp, the amound of dp removed is based on a flat formula where you gain exp and it converts to removal of DP, so in other words, use your weakest skills that gain you the max exp.

Flat formula? I surely don't agree...

- some players with a lot of dappers would rather craft heavy helmets given the fact that they want to get rid of DP faster and they can get money selling the items.

False assumption, this only works IF you get exp while crafting that level of item, you MUST get exp for DP to be removed

that was assumed. Did you read my post :"* You can use any skill to remove DP, as long as it gives you XP. The DP points you substract are computed"

- Some other players would not craft while in DP since they consider it a waste of mats.

true and false, why waste the exp for crafting on dp

Because I have 30 min to play. I'm rich, I craft helmets at lvl 70 heavy armor using Armor Crafting 17 I got crafting light, I get 3k-6k per helmet, I get rid in a few minutes and I can go hunt with my friends. I've done it several times. Does it seem a good reason to you?

that it is not based on max level /10.

I did not say it was based on max level/10. The DP you get is based on max level. the DP you remove isn't.

and again.... my levels are fine.

A.

Tests
--------------------------
Well, I died on purpose to test this....

1st death, 282170 DP due to my forest forage (has been like this for a while now)

To remove DP went to thesos, harvest. Desert forage = 171
got 1556 Xp for the action.
soo.... 1556 * (17, yes skill level / 10) = 26607
and sys info says:
"you have removed 26618... remaining 255551"..
next action
kill an ocyx, I get 343 xp
sooo 343 * (17, yes I'm 170+ off mage too) = 5831
let's see what sys info says
"which amount to 5908 ... remaining"....
next action
184 xp healing * (130/10) = 2428
"which amount to 2432... remaining"....
it seems pretty clear to me.
22 xp stunning (115/10) = 255
"which amounts for 259"

I guess the "flat formula like times 7 or 8 regardless of skill" assertion does not apply to me. Of course I can be wrong and I am eager to be corrected, but I'd suggest you refraining from calling me a clueless player, that my post was one of the worse posts and from suggesting me to gain a few levels. We can all gather some useful information without going into flames. I may read your comments after you come back from work, but I don't think I'll be posting more. Once again, I forgot why I should refrain from posting. Of course, if I am wrong I will stand corrected and apologyze to you. Can I expect the same treatment?

Anissa

zumwalt · Post by **zumwalt** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 3:27 pm

Like I have stated, I will document everything tonight and post every piece of the documentation, including the leveling of skills and post the dp per death, etc.

Its easy enough to show what I am talking about.
If I am wrong, I am wrong, but we shall see.

Edit:
at one point I have had over 3 million dp, and when I did at that time my max level was in 2h melee at level 70, so in other words, no, it doesn't add up.

Edit:
Anissa, yes you can, I do want to appologize for the way I came across in my first response post about the dp though, stressful day at work, and I know how the dp effects are on my character, but not on others, so to be as complete as possible, to help out on the dp questions and to help solidify the myths/truths about it, the method that I will use tonight will be similar to a Q/A method and do it scientifically.

Examples of the Q/A that I will put together for the post will be as follows:
Q: How many deaths can I take before I hit max dp?
A: (testing will be done tonight and I will keep dieing until I don't gain any more dp, and document dp at every death, and death number)

I will put together more Q/A on a list based on the conversation and how I responded to the list of items.

Lukati · Post by **Lukati** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 3:40 pm

I don't know who to believe.

Wait a minute! I'm not even sure if it's worth arguing over!

aelvana · Post by **aelvana** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 4:16 pm

Zumwalt is incorrect. Since about two weeks into release, when zzei first noticed the formulas, I'd watch my DP and DP EXP recovery out of habit. It's also always been exactly the same for everyone I've talked to. The formulas are the same even for newbies -- I started one and got her a bunch of spawns first thing. Using a level 1 skill got me 1/10th the EXP for that action in DP.

DP maxes at 10 deaths exactly.

The formula for DP exp is:
EXP gained from skill * (skill level / 10)

It's probably more likely human error than a bug that only affects zumwalt. I'm in game right now, with a maxed DP of 1,829,700. My max skill has been 170 for a couple weeks now, and single deaths over the past week have gotten me 182k. I just harvested something using forest harvest, at 51, getting 846 EXP, which translated into 4318 DP EXP. Running my 846 through our formula gives me 4314.6. Right on target, given a few points for rounding in the actual in-game formula.

I see misinformation, and I itch like crazy. That is all.

vguerin · Post by **vguerin** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:15 pm

I hopefully covered DP here..

http://ryzom.twazz.net/modules.php?name ... opic&t=178

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pinsao · Post by **pinsao** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:18 pm

aelvana wrote: DP maxes at 10 deaths exactly.

The formula for DP exp is:
EXP gained from skill * (skill level / 10)

This is correct

zumwalt · Post by **zumwalt** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:49 pm

Myth, 10 deaths are Max:

Fact, can be more.
Proof (during lunch headign back to work)

Fighter 1, Crafter 1, Magic 1, Harvest 1, Death count before reaching max DP: 11

Log Starting [2004/12/10 12:10:28]

Death 1
2004/12/10 12:15:30 DBG 2420 client_ryzom_rd.exe net_manager.cpp 503 : <impulseChat> Received CHAT : You have been killed by

the Weanling Bodoc.
2004/12/10 12:15:40 DBG 2420 client_ryzom_rd.exe net_manager.cpp 503 : <impulseChat> Received CHAT : Your death penalty

reached 1 points. You have currently recovered 0.

Death 2
2004/12/10 12:16:38 DBG 2420 client_ryzom_rd.exe net_manager.cpp 503 : <impulseChat> Received CHAT : You have been killed by

the Puny Ragus.
2004/12/10 12:16:44 INF 2420 client_ryzom_rd.exe string_manager_client.cpp 499 : DynString 2471715109 available : [&XP&Your

death penalty reached 2 points. You have currently recovered 0.]

Death 3
2004/12/10 12:17:30 DBG 2420 client_ryzom_rd.exe net_manager.cpp 503 : <impulseChat> Received CHAT : You have been killed by

the Suckling Yubo.
2004/12/10 12:17:38 DBG 2420 client_ryzom_rd.exe net_manager.cpp 503 : <impulseChat> Received CHAT : Your death penalty

reached 3 points. You have currently recovered 0.

Death 4
2004/12/10 12:18:32 DBG 2420 client_ryzom_rd.exe net_manager.cpp 503 : <impulseChat> Received CHAT : You have been killed by

the Suckling Capryni.
2004/12/10 12:18:39 DBG 2420 client_ryzom_rd.exe net_manager.cpp 503 : <impulseChat> Received CHAT : Your death penalty

reached 4 points. You have currently recovered 0.

Death 5
2004/12/10 12:19:01 DBG 2420 client_ryzom_rd.exe net_manager.cpp 503 : <impulseChat> Received CHAT : You have been killed by

the Suckling Yubo.
2004/12/10 12:19:07 DBG 2420 client_ryzom_rd.exe net_manager.cpp 503 : <impulseChat> Received CHAT : Your death penalty

reached 5 points. You have currently recovered 0.

Death 6
2004/12/10 12:19:36 DBG 2420 client_ryzom_rd.exe net_manager.cpp 503 : <impulseChat> Received CHAT : You have been killed by

the Suckling Yubo.
2004/12/10 12:19:43 DBG 2420 client_ryzom_rd.exe net_manager.cpp 503 : <impulseChat> Received CHAT : Your death penalty

reached 5 points. You have currently recovered 0.

Death 7
2004/12/10 12:20:56 DBG 2420 client_ryzom_rd.exe net_manager.cpp 503 : <impulseChat> Received CHAT : You have been killed by

the Weanling Yubo.
2004/12/10 12:21:03 DBG 2420 client_ryzom_rd.exe net_manager.cpp 503 : <impulseChat> Received CHAT : Your death penalty

reached 6 points. You have currently recovered 0.

Death 8
2004/12/10 12:21:37 DBG 2420 client_ryzom_rd.exe net_manager.cpp 503 : <impulseChat> Received CHAT : You have been killed by

the Weanling Yubo.
2004/12/10 12:21:44 DBG 2420 client_ryzom_rd.exe net_manager.cpp 503 : <impulseChat> Received CHAT : Your death penalty

reached 7 points. You have currently recovered 0.

Death 9
2004/12/10 12:22:07 DBG 2420 client_ryzom_rd.exe net_manager.cpp 503 : <impulseChat> Received CHAT : You have been killed by

the Suckling Yubo.
2004/12/10 12:22:14 DBG 2420 client_ryzom_rd.exe net_manager.cpp 503 : <impulseChat> Received CHAT : Your death penalty

reached 8 points. You have currently recovered 0.

Death 10
2004/12/10 12:22:38 DBG 2420 client_ryzom_rd.exe net_manager.cpp 503 : <impulseChat> Received CHAT : You have been killed by

the Suckling Yubo.
2004/12/10 12:22:45 DBG 2420 client_ryzom_rd.exe net_manager.cpp 503 : <impulseChat> Received CHAT : Your death penalty

reached 9 points. You have currently recovered 0.

Death 11
2004/12/10 12:23:20 DBG 2420 client_ryzom_rd.exe net_manager.cpp 503 : <impulseChat> Received CHAT : You have been killed by

the Suckling Yubo.
2004/12/10 12:23:26 DBG 2420 client_ryzom_rd.exe net_manager.cpp 503 : <impulseChat> Received CHAT : Your death penalty

reached 10 points. You have currently recovered 0.

roninpvp · Post by **roninpvp** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:49 pm

zumwalt wrote:Some facts

* DP is computed taking into account only your highest skill.
a lvl 200 fighter will get around 280k on first death
Unconfirmed

* Max DP is reached after 10 deaths.
Wrong, I was over 13 deaths and still got 40k dp a death

* Max DP for a lvl 250 skill after 10 deaths - 4.5 million
Wrong, again, I can continue to get DP after 10 deaths, or atleast I could from patch 25 on backwards

* You can use any skill to remove DP, as long as it gives you XP. The DP points you substract are computed

XP you gained using that skill * (skill level/10)
Wrong, skill level has nothing to do with it, its more along the lines of Exp gained * 7 or expgained * 8, not skill level, if I get 500 exp from a kill that means I get about 3500 dp, not 5000, its a flat formula based on gained experience.

* Dying just before the action that would get rid you of DP (e.g. dying by explosion of the last pull) is worse that getting rid of DP and just dying then.
Wrong, you have a total DP counter, no matter when you die, you get dp based on the same formula, if you have 40k dp, and you have regained 39,550 dp, and you die in an explosion, you will have to work off 40,050 dp, which is the remainder (50dp) + the new 40,000 dp, and the system will STATE you have 80,000 dp of which you have recovered 39,550 dp, always been this way)

Some myths:
- you don't necessarily have to use your highest skill to remove DP. Some secondary branches may be better if the above formula result is higher (true, imo, I don't use my highest skill to get rid of DP)
You can use any skill that gains you exp, the amound of dp removed is based on a flat formula where you gain exp and it converts to removal of DP, so in other words, use your weakest skills that gain you the max exp.

- DP takes into account all skills (false, It is based on highest skill only)
False, if I level a lower skill 1 level, my dp I get on a kill is raised, if I raise a high skill, the dp I get on a kill is raised, the percent it is raised is based on the level of the skill, so a level 10 warrior, 5 caster is a total of 15 levels to put into the dp, this is something I have tested, simply because if you are a level 110 warrior, and just start out leveling harvesting, you die and get around 80k dp to begin with, if you gain a few levels in harvesting, you will notice when you die, that your dp will raise, test it yourself.

Common practice
- some players with a lot of dappers would rather craft heavy helmets given the fact that they want to get rid of DP faster and they can get money selling the items.
False assumption, this only works IF you get exp while crafting that level of item, you MUST get exp for DP to be removed

- Some other players would not craft while in DP since they consider it a waste of mats.
true and false, why waste the exp for crafting on dp

- Before patch 1 changes, it was very easy and fast to get rid of DP while getting 3k harvesting even at highest levels provided you could go to the appropriate sources. I still remove DP harvesting, at least you gather the mats
True, and anyway its easier to solo harvest off dp sometimes unless your in a very good hunting party.

- If your harvesting skill is high enough, best common practice seems to be to remove DP harvesting, since you remove DP points at a rate of 1.5k/2k per pull (at the lowest source time) * (lvl/10)
False, it is NOT lvl/10, never has been, its more along the lines of exp * 7 or exp * 8, again this is provable

This was a very bad post, not very fact driven, and everything about it can be misproven. Please go out, gain levels in lower skills, and die, look at the amount of dp you get, test everything I have posted about dp, you will see that it is not based on max level /10.

I had to quote to keep 1.) Your total igornace of Math or Ryzom captured for all those who may want to see it when you edit your post in shame 2.) The humor in someone with wrong info being so rude to somone with correct info.

You claim you have to "test everything" and claim IPH is wrong.... Translation - your ranting and insulting people who have taken the time to contribute actual numbers and formulas without having a clue how things work yourself.....BRILLIANT! Indeed max DP is at 10 deaths and for me and has stayed constant as I have stopped leveling my highest skill. Indeed the DP recover formula posted here is correct. In fact I agree with everything posted here but the timing of death (not sure what IPH means there so cant agree/disagree).

Ironically It is your words that describe your post

zumwalt wrote: This was a very bad post, not very fact driven, and everything about it can be misproven.

Ryzom

WHY?!?!?!?!??!??!!?? (Patch 27 woes)

Re: WHY?!?!?!?!??!??!!?? (Patch 27 woes)

Re: WHY?!?!?!?!??!??!!?? (Patch 27 woes)

Re: WHY?!?!?!?!??!??!!?? (Patch 27 woes)

Re: WHY?!?!?!?!??!??!!?? (Patch 27 woes)

Re: WHY?!?!?!?!??!??!!?? (Patch 27 woes)

Re: WHY?!?!?!?!??!??!!?? (Patch 27 woes)

Re: WHY?!?!?!?!??!??!!?? (Patch 27 woes)

Re: WHY?!?!?!?!??!??!!?? (Patch 27 woes)

Re: WHY?!?!?!?!??!??!!?? (Patch 27 woes)

Re: WHY?!?!?!?!??!??!!?? (Patch 27 woes)