Ryzom

I have an idea how about a Craftable Fife that make the Animals go out and forage for us and get our lvl then come to you with 1 hp u hit them and you get exp and a full invortory

btamilio wrote:That's... the point.. of the merchants. The incentive for any harvester is to sell it on the marketplace for 3x to 5x what they would get from a merchant, or from giving it away to a guildie crafter.

Given enough people harvesting and putting mats on consignment, it should work as intended. If not, then it just slows you down at those higher levels. Too bad.
There is no reason someone should be breaking 200 one month after the game comes out. I'm sure that's not what was intended.

You dont seem to understand that

A) It will be harder to get materials via hunting and foraging after patch. Thus there will be less materials out there for "player merchants".

B) Dapper is useless. The only use it has is grinding skills up to 90-100 and buying tickets. After that, it is meaningless.

C) Guilds will still keep their materials inside their guilds, because people want better weapons and armor more than they do money.

The end result = No one will want to spend hours getting fewer mats than before only to sell it for a marked up price because money is inherintly worthless in this game.

It doesnt matter whether or not people "should" of gotten to 200 or not. They have. You can't just say " ok well screw the high level people ". People who play a lot are not evil or destroying the game, the game lets them do whatever they have achieved, and if it was not intended, it's the game and thus the designers fault.

It's very annoying to see people run around posting about how high level people are destroying the game for everyone else. It sounds like blatent jelousy. Some people play more than others, some play less. Some are just better at these types of games. Furthermore you only say "too bad" for high level players because you yourself are probably not high level, or else you would be among their ranks and be just as frustrated by the upcoming changes. Try not to be so selfish and look at the wellfare of the game as a whole.

Making this game increasingly harder for *everyone* (foraging is harder, fighting is harder) is not a wise idea for a game that both has a small playerbase and has to deal with massive games like WoW and EQ2 coming out soon.

btamilio wrote:That's... the point.. of the merchants. The incentive for any harvester is to sell it on the marketplace for 3x to 5x what they would get from a merchant, or from giving it away to a guildie crafter.

Given enough people harvesting and putting mats on consignment, it should work as intended. If not, then it just slows you down at those higher levels. Too bad.

No guild member is going to sell materials on the open market when a guild crafter needs them. Its just not going to happen in any intelligently run guild. I pay all guild members for the materials they bring me (better than normal vendor prices). They get the dapper, I get the materials to improve myself, which in turn means better (free) equipment for them. Why would a guild member sell outside their guild?

Unless materials become easier to gather after the patch as opposed to now then there will be very little worthwhile market activity because the materials will go to the exact same place they do now. Guilds.

btamilio wrote:There is no reason someone should be breaking 200 one month after the game comes out. I'm sure that's not what was intended.

Maybe if the developers released some actual content then people wouldn't have only one thing to mainly do.. which is level up.. What do you expect people to do? Sit around and wait for the content before playing?

Also on the level 200 thing...
Maybe if the developers had fixed the obvious bug with Blind WEEKS ago instead of waiting til Patch 1 we wouldnt have level 200 combat characters. Instead they just let it go and go and go and go.

It has been over a week and a half since anyone in my guild has done combat xp'ing because we have focused entirely on harvesting for the guild. Even with thousands of mats coming in per day we still have a ton of work to do and this is just getting a few crafters a few lines to 150.

....

Yes. Combat xp is far to fast. So was harvesting XP which was already nerfed with material specialization being changed. What is not fast is the quantity of materials that would allow crafters to level at the same pace. Its a GOOD thing that combat xp and harvesting xp were slowed down, but it is NOT A GOOD THING to further decrease the rate at which the quantity of materials are gained because this will further slow crafter progression which does NOTHING to solve the original problem in the first place. Anyone getting this?

moriant wrote:It has been over a week and a half since anyone in my guild has done combat xp'ing because we have focused entirely on harvesting for the guild. Even with thousands of mats coming in per day we still have a ton of work to do and this is just getting a few crafters a few lines to 150.

Make that a grand total of 2 who can make one pike and one vest. Woot! Hundreds of man hours, tens of thousands of mats.

moriant wrote:Yes. Combat xp is far to fast. So was harvesting XP which was already nerfed with material specialization being changed. What is not fast is the quantity of materials that would allow crafters to level at the same pace. Its a GOOD thing that combat xp and harvesting xp were slowed down, but it is NOT A GOOD THING to further decrease the rate at which the quantity of materials are gained because this will further slow crafter progression which does NOTHING to solve the original problem in the first place. Anyone getting this?

Sadly, apparently not.

moriant wrote:How exactly are independant harvesters going to supply mats when a solo harvester will not be able to pull a steady amount of mats? What incentive is there to sell that stack of materials you just spent an hour or more collecting? Dapper? What will you spend the dapper on?

Perhaps... equipment for your magery/fighting skills?


If you're a crafter as well, perhaps to buy choice mats for the items you want to craft?

Let's say you are a harvester that crafts jewels. But, suppose there is a really high demand for certain choice armor crafting materials, and they are selling out on the marketplace, but not much at all for ambers.

So, instead of going out an harvesting ambers for jewel making, you harvest big shell and put it on the marketplace. You'll make way more money, and be able to afford more ambers appropriate to you.

--

Step back and start thinking about the game differently; things are changing, and they are breaking some of those comforable notions we have about the game dynamics, but it's all manageable. Wait for the patch to actually come out. It will make sense after a while.

btamilio wrote:Perhaps... equipment for your magery/fighting skills?


If you're a crafter as well, perhaps to buy choice mats for the items you want to craft?

Let's say you are a harvester that crafts jewels. But, suppose there is a really high demand for certain choice armor crafting materials, and they are selling out on the marketplace, but not much at all for ambers.

So, instead of going out an harvesting ambers for jewel making, you harvest big shell and put it on the marketplace. You'll make way more money, and be able to afford more ambers appropriate to you.

--

Step back and start thinking about the game differently; things are changing, and they are breaking some of those comforable notions we have about the game dynamics, but it's all manageable. Wait for the patch to actually come out. It will make sense after a while.

OK anyone who thinks big shell is an armor mat is obviously not a crafter. But that's besides the point. The whole gist of this thread is that THERE WILL BE A HUGE DECREASE IN QUANTITY. Get that through your heads. The game dynamics are changing to DECREASE quantity of mats. So perhaps you should step back and rethink that.

On another note. I require 45000 armor shells, 40000 linings, 35000 stuffings & 12000 clips. Anyone willing to contribute to this cause I would like to hire you at a very good price. Stacks of 99 Q100-250 mats only please (I prefer not to deal with the inventory hell that is partial stacks).

So there, I await your flood of materials on the market.

The most dedicated crafters are only getting up to the 150's now.

The harvesters are complaining they can't get max XP by pulling 230 mats anymore.

The harvesters are complaining that they can't supply mats fast enough.

The answer (and what is being done with the patch) puller a larger number of lower QL mats.

This shouldn't be a problem.

"I can't level my forage as fast anymore!"
So? the crafters don't need what you are supplying, so give them more of what they need instead of high-level stuff that gets wasted on 150 items.

"It takes too much focus to pull the high level mats!"
Pull lower quality in more quantity with softer means. Fighters can't continnualyl fight (by themselves) max XP, casters can't continually cast max spells vs. max XP mobs, harvesters can't harvest max xp constantly. Funny, it works out.

"I keep dying to explosions/gas!"
Watch the life bars, use mat and location specialization, use high prospect/low harvest stanzas.

Or at least, this is the way I'm seeing it. Maybe I see the glass as half full, but I think these changes are actually a good thing, both for the short term and long term.

as far as explosions go i have died several times with NO Warning ie LAG take the Boom I Take the unseen Damage so....

tleilaxu wrote:OK anyone who thinks big shell is an armor mat is obviously not a crafter. But that's besides the point. The whole gist of this thread is that THERE WILL BE A HUGE DECREASE IN QUANTITY. Get that through your heads. The game dynamics are changing to DECREASE quantity of mats. So perhaps you should step back and rethink that.

But obviously not all people agree on this...

The thing which has to be seen is if the player vendors will compensate (or, more likely, overcompensate) the reduction in foraged mats. You think it won't, I think it will.

This discussion is meaningless, because noone can see how things will develop. Lets see how the situation is in 1 week and then speak again.

Even in the unlikely even that you are right it's not like things will be set in stone. Believe it or not, the devs would like a balanced game as well. So if there will be problems with getting crafters their mats they will change things..eventually. But MMORPGs are longterm projects, even one month of a ebb in items won't mean a thing in the long run.

mikwana wrote:The most dedicated crafters are only getting up to the 150's now.

The harvesters are complaining they can't get max XP by pulling 230 mats anymore.

The harvesters are complaining that they can't supply mats fast enough.

The answer (and what is being done with the patch) puller a larger number of lower QL mats.

This shouldn't be a problem.

"I can't level my forage as fast anymore!"
So? the crafters don't need what you are supplying, so give them more of what they need instead of high-level stuff that gets wasted on 150 items.

"It takes too much focus to pull the high level mats!"
Pull lower quality in more quantity with softer means. Fighters can't continnualyl fight (by themselves) max XP, casters can't continually cast max spells vs. max XP mobs, harvesters can't harvest max xp constantly. Funny, it works out.

"I keep dying to explosions/gas!"
Watch the life bars, use mat and location specialization, use high prospect/low harvest stanzas.

Or at least, this is the way I'm seeing it. Maybe I see the glass as half full, but I think these changes are actually a good thing, both for the short term and long term.

A larger number of lower Q mats is NOT being pulled. That is exactly the point.

If you had read my post thoroughly you would realise that Stigian and I can ONLY pull UP TO Q150 and we decided to test out pulling at different Q levels. For a LEVEL appropriate pull of Q140 mats the careplanner was getting 1/4 the XP of the puller, i.e. I got 300ish XP while Stigian got 1100ish XP. There is an inherent imbalance here especially when requiring that harvesters group more.

Not to mention the fact that there is a HUGE increase in downtime now because of the increased focus consumption.

So how does this add up to a larger number of lower Q mats? IT DOESN'T. MOST EMPHATICALLY IT DOESN'T. And that is where I have a big problem with the patch as a crafter and as a harvester.