Ryzom

Erhm, right now, even if I would like to and have a job, I can't even afford the suggested price. And it's not because I don't want to pay to play. To me Ryzom is well worth that pirce but... it's no good if I can't afford even ONE account subscribtion.

And I guess a higher cost would turn off even more customers than the learning curve itself already does. Targetting a mature community of experienced gamers is definitely the way to go. AoC has a mature rating but the community is as immature as WoW. Ryzom doesn't have that mature rating yet the game mechanics themselves tend to weed out the immature players.

I'm sure that a lot of those experienced players are already fed-up with the point and click or mindless button mashing stuff and the retardedly simple/dumbed down harvesting and crafting systems. And the freedom ! Your no longer restricted to a couple skills locked on cooldowns, you can be whatever you want, whenever you want without unlearning or respeccing anything. Your skills, looks and outfit are entirely customisable. You can be very unique : even if many people have the possibility to imitate you doesn't mean they will, . The only limits are the time you are willing to invest and your own perseverance.

All these features should attract the more mature and experienced players who have "been there, done that" with the mainstream MMOs and are looking for something deeper that will not only challenge their talent, but also their knowledge and understanding of game mechanics.

Steep learning curve... I know Ryzom is complicated... but its far simpler than say w0w's countless classes and spec spells - just try keeping track of what each can do at what moment during a battle;( Here the list of spells, auras, and attacks is short and easily tracked since everyone can use them (depending on skill level of course)

All they really need is more informative tutorials - Silan is good for the most part - great notes were added not long before The Great Lagout - but I would like to see more on the mainland.
For instance: forming a guild requires you to track down a guy buried in some bureaucratic building. The greeters can only direct you to someone you already know about - the 'menu' is a bit confusing for a first-timer.

That said, Ryzom's greatest asset, the players, have always been willing to help. Just a few minutes of walking someone around always seemed to be enough to not only answer their questions - but also settle them in as enthusiastic homins who are willing to put up with the confusion thanks to that little glimpse of just how caring the community is.
</gush>
*reads back... gets confused... decides to go to bed*

I think arfindel and zarozina's posts should be read by whoever bought this game. They give the only viable solution out there, namely build on Ryzom's strengths and target it to the right audience instead of trying for a "me too" success emulating existing formulas.

Fact nr.1: You cannot turn Ryzom into a mainstream game even if you wanted to, the game was not designed like that.
Fact nr.2: Even if you commited the "sacrilege" of making the game f2p and making an item shop or whatever, Ryzom would still remain a niche game and its very unlikely it will please the f2p audience, it will just lose all existing fans.

Personally i think there are enough people out there who would really like this game, so definitely Ryzom can become viable. The problem is these people are not your standard mmo gamer, so bringing Ryzom to their attention is the biggest challenge the new owner has to face.

Ryzom has the best story ever seen in an mmo, the potential is endless, as danolt already pointed out, but this potential was never used, story was never fully implemented in the game because they ran out of funds shortly after launch.
I wont even start about the great graphics even by today's standards, the very original and excellent game system, RAID system and so on.

I simply refuse to believe a game so good can not be turned into a profitable mmo.

I would pay even more than 18 something pounds, but I'm sure that this won't be the long-term solution for making the game profitable.

I'm also sure to quit should a well-equipped item shop be implemented. Maybe one could charge something extra for having more storage space, but one of the fortes of the game is the crafting and harvesting system, so any item shop selling actual items would kill what I like most about the game.

I am quite convinced that it is not feasible to start a marketing-campaign that is so specific to work on the segments some pointed out in previous posts. e.g. house-wives: get banners on sites for pregnant women or what? You just loose to much by such kind of advertising. You still need to ad on the usual mmo sites.

To me the solution would be to get a slice even of the wow-players (just a slice, mind). And I think there is a way to do this. Ryzom is not simply too complicated, it is just too different at the beginning to what these people know. One who is used to quests just laughs seeing the first missions in ryzom. the "quests" in ryzom are mostly just terrible. still remember the pain of fameing... this is a kind of grinding far worse than simple leveling as there is no danger to it at all.

However, I think that one should improve starter quests so that the players of other mmo's feel at home in ryzom a bit faster. Then these quests should lead those players to feel what is actually different and better in ryzom than in other mmo's. And there are a lot of things that are actually better.

have you ever seen a newb that harvested/crafted for a while (the first few hours are hard, I mean one that did it for some days) quit soon after? Within our guild none who started harvesting/crafting in earnest came close to quitting the game for real.

you will now say that the majority won't like it as I do. Maybe, but I doubt it. I rather think that the newbs quitting after two months never went harvesting for some time. They just did not expect it to be the fun it would have become.

So, to me the starter quests should be more elaborated in order to be comparable to other mmo's. So a newb won't say "that's ridiculous" just after ten minutes not knowing nothing of the game as it really is. Then the quest, starting slowly by "kill this" turns for example into "now harvest that and then craft this" resulting in an item that has some advantage for the player and doesn't need to be dropped at a npc. So even a silan-player does win a real advantage by something he crafted on his own and thus is lead to one of the fortes of the game.

There are other routes to win specific segments of the wow-player base. e.g. Ryzom is not overly attractive to a pvp-player at the beginning. He needs to fame in order to have some pvp other than duels. Even if this is not what I actually hope, if you want to win pvp-players theres a lever to turn.

Easiest to win are crafters I think. Coz the class-less crafting system is just hot. You want to win them, then show them how crafting really works at the beginning. I know there are crafting quests in silan. They too are pointless. What about more sophisticated crafting-quests showing why the crafting system is so much better than in any other game (... that I played till now. Is there another?) Nowadays the quest is: make ten of this and drop at npc. That does not show that things can be crafted in a million varieties. Would be lots better to show silan-players how to craft armour in different styles and colours so that they really can start to individualize their char early on.

and then some end-game-content would be fun too

however, just some thoughts

embrel
leanon

mashed wrote:well i do believe a lot of ppl already do pay extra for extra storage

They're not paying for extra storage, they're paying for the convenience of being able to log two characters in at once, cutting a middle-man out of transferring stuff to storage alts. One can have four extra guild halls, apartments, and sets of mektoubs without paying any more than one subscription.

In short: if, as some may fear, the game was bought with the idea of being operated "at minimum cost", that is, to keep the server running with one or two (or a handful of) technical people for the billing and regular maintenance, with almost no updates / upgrades (basically as run by Gameforge) then I would take part in the agony until I got tired and I'd be willing to pay a reasonable cost (competitive prices).

The cost of keeping the multiple server boxes running far exceeds the amount attained through subscription fees at any point in the past. If it does come back you would be paying for the server maintenance, unless anyone is proficient enough to troll through hundreds of thousands of lines of code? Also it's unlikely that there will be the three main servers with all database data intact. Perhaps at most a single international server for everyone, with perhaps more outposts opened up could be manageable, a database wipe might be inevitable though?

Would you play again if you had to start from scratch?

I know I would Butthen I don't have 25 masters

final60 wrote:The cost of keeping the multiple server boxes running far exceeds the amount attained through subscription fees at any point in the past. If it does come back you would be paying for the server maintenance, unless anyone is proficient enough to troll through hundreds of thousands of lines of code? Also it's unlikely that there will be the three main servers with all database data intact. Perhaps at most a single international server for everyone, with perhaps more outposts opened up could be manageable, a database wipe might be inevitable though?

Would you play again if you had to start from scratch?

For experienced programmers should not be impossible to troll thru zillion lines of code, it's just a matter of time.

Are you saying that we have to expect only one server reopening?

About the wipe, here is a very good post from Dentom. He posted in german forum but also here, in english:

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2106295#2106295

I agree with him. Of course, i will play also from scratch, because, as pointed by Dentom, no wipe will be able to erase our experience and knowledge of the game. It will be not good for newbies, because they will end up in a grind-fest game for at least 2-3 months.

I agree completely with everything in that post.

Ofcourse, if the characters simply got lost when the game was sold, it can't be helped. No problem for me, I'll still play if I have to start anew.

But if the new owners wipe the characters on purpose in some cheap ploy to get a short-term player boost, I'm not so sure I will. It'd be a major strike against them right from the start.

As for paying more, I already had a second account that I hardly ever used. So they could double the monthly cost and I'd still play, but then I'd only have one account, so it wouldn't make a difference for them.

final60 wrote:The cost of keeping the multiple server boxes running far exceeds the amount attained through subscription fees at any point in the past.

I tend to think so yes. I cannot foresee the future, but I don't know the current owners cost model, or whether they plan to run one or three (or three in the hardware supposedly for one) shards, or what plans they have in order to succeed where others have failed. Additionally, I guess CSR support will be similar to post-Jolt era

If it does come back you would be paying for the server maintenance, unless anyone is proficient enough to troll through hundreds of thousands of lines of code?

Even if there are a few developers, there is enough work with maintenance, bug fixes, patches and minor content additions. I am afraid that yes, I fail to see how major changes can be (now or in the future) addressed without an investment (a real investment, not just 200k to get the assets as a bargain). In short: who can expect the game to be drastically different from what it was in the previous weeks before the announcement, and do we want it different?

Also it's unlikely that there will be the three main servers with all database data intact. Perhaps at most a single international server for everyone, with perhaps more outposts opened up could be manageable, a database wipe might be inevitable though?

we don't know yet. Although I think there is little technical reason to justify a wipe. Characters have been ported in the past, and character data was one of the transferred assets. I don't think characters have been lost or erased (and somehow they are tied to accounts). Whether there is a "clean slate" approach, we will see, but this may alienate oldies (including me). Will I also lose the iphdrunk account?

I am curious to know how is this third "re-re-launch" going to be managed. Anything I can say here you are well aware of. The setting is unique (although mostly not ready, vaporware) and even having a dedicated employee to manage the lore (ravnistic disasters) is costly.

sidusar: But if the new owners wipe the characters on purpose in some cheap ploy to get a short-term player boost

Just even before they try: please *don't*. This is what they tried with Cho sahrd and *failed miserably*

Would you play again if you had to start from scratch?

I've read this question in a few forums, and although I can't give a definite answer I'm afraid that without a significant change, starting from scratch would be painful (caveat emptor: I have invested a significant amount of time and I am high level). I have gone through a few wipes and rerolls myself, and I am not as attached as I used to be to re-invest again. Only a major change (like a second planet, although this is clearly not the case) would eventually convince me to.

yours