Factions vs neutrals

[mugendo]

It wasnt PvP that killed SWG.

You are correct, I should be have been more specific in my post...

First I will address your perception of OPINION Vs FACT,
Opinion is something the speaker BELIEVES to be FACT..unless he is a politician, then we can all assume this is a blatant lie....let me assume you are not a politician and I can accept you BELIEVE your statement to be FACT when it is indeed only PERSONAL OPINION.

Now that is clear let me move onto the point I was making in my post you Quoted in part.....

Lets start with the DOCUMENTED articles I will refer to as FACTS...

"Never Assume That Your Customers Don't Read The Times:
This one's a corollary to the previous lesson. Carolyn Hocke's complaint in Wired was typical of the player reaction to the changes: "It's now a shoot'em-up game for adolescents, not at all conducive to our play style." LucasArts' MacIntyre was surely aware of this likely reaction -- through attrition, the SWG customer base was now consolidated into a mass of subscribers who were comfortable in a complex virtual world."



Next.........

It was the fact that people got good enough to solo and camp PvE things and people called it unbalanced. Thank you very much for your OPINION though.
Its very very wrong. And the PvP was FAR better BEFORE they nerfed it. Which is agreed by nearly everyone..

As for "almost everyone" in your statement, this again is something I think we need to clarify, I hope I can demonstrate how innacurate your summary of playerbase agreement is....

"And yet MacIntyre said this to the Times: "We really just needed to make the game a lot more accessible to a much broader player base ... There was lots of reading, much too much, in the game ... We wanted more instant gratification: kill, get treasure, repeat. We needed to give people more of an opportunity to be a part of what they have seen in the movies rather than something they had created themselves."



And Finally.......

(of course some things got changed due to PvP, DoT's being the main thing)

And I do have to applaude you for the above statement in it's attempt at grasping the concept of accuracy...though I would dare to mention it may be a little .......erm...underestimated in it's summary of the applied changes ?

Of course this is using just one article from the NY times to quote from, and though it can be viewed as biased...I am sure a quick login to SWG will confirm my OPINION of the current state of the game, as stated in my post you disagree with.

Unless you wish to present some FACTS of your own that I have missed ?

[tigrus]

You are correct, I should be have been more specific in my post...

First I will address your perception of OPINION Vs FACT,
Opinion is something the speaker BELIEVES to be FACT..unless he is a politician, then we can all assume this is a blatant lie....let me assume you are not a politician and I can accept you BELIEVE your statement to be FACT when it is indeed only PERSONAL OPINION.

Now that is clear let me move onto the point I was making in my post you Quoted in part.....

Lets start with the DOCUMENTED articles I will refer to as FACTS...

"Never Assume That Your Customers Don't Read The Times:
This one's a corollary to the previous lesson. Carolyn Hocke's complaint in Wired was typical of the player reaction to the changes: "It's now a shoot'em-up game for adolescents, not at all conducive to our play style." LucasArts' MacIntyre was surely aware of this likely reaction -- through attrition, the SWG customer base was now consolidated into a mass of subscribers who were comfortable in a complex virtual world."

Whats your point here? This has nothing to do with either pvp or PvE. This has to do with the fact that Raph Koster created a complex virtual world as that was his goal.

Next.........



As for "almost everyone" in your statement, this again is something I think we need to clarify, I hope I can demonstrate how innacurate your summary of playerbase agreement is....

"And yet MacIntyre said this to the Times: "We really just needed to make the game a lot more accessible to a much broader player base ... There was lots of reading, much too much, in the game ... We wanted more instant gratification: kill, get treasure, repeat. We needed to give people more of an opportunity to be a part of what they have seen in the movies rather than something they had created themselves."

And this is *NOT* about PvE how?
This has *EVERYTHING* to do with PvE as I said in my post. Not PvP.
Hence you are just backing up my opinion on this part.

And Finally.......



And I do have to applaude you for the above statement in it's attempt at grasping the concept of accuracy...though I would dare to mention it may be a little .......erm...underestimated in it's summary of the applied changes ?

Of course this is using just one article from the NY times to quote from, and though it can be viewed as biased...I am sure a quick login to SWG will confirm my OPINION of the current state of the game, as stated in my post you disagree with.

Unless you wish to present some FACTS of your own that I have missed ?

So you are saying that the reason the NGE is bad and the state of the game is bad is because they made it a gankfest?

How about the fact they removed absolutely all decent PvP skills, and the pvp systems so that the PvPers quit instantly?
Or the fact they dumbed it down so all those who wanted a challenge left?
Or that the NGE code didnt mix with the Pre-Cu BASE code made by Raph Koster so that it caused numerous thousand bugs making a TON of people leave?
Or the fact that all the good pvpers armors, gears, weapons and things they had strived to achieve got nerfed beyond reqognition?

The game died, and was given birth by marketing it to teenagers.
It didnt die because they made it a gankfest, that came to SAVE it and bring in new customers after they killed it the first time.

Thats my point, il make sure i write long detailed posts next time so that i dont have to write it twice like now.

[karmelit]

I will drop out of this tread as this has gone way out of topic, duh

[tigrus]

I will drop out of this tread as this has gone way out of topic, duh

Never was ON topic, it was to get the BS discussions out of other threads.

[karmelit]

To avoid spam in our GOOD thread about war escalation.
Please discuss the neutral vs faction bla bla bla in here..


Your friendly neighbourhood sexy beast

I suggest you go read it again, and then post a well thought out ON TOPIC post.

Have a nice day.

Never was ON topic, it was to get the BS discussions out of other threads.

Waves everybody on
Nothing to see here, this is just a dead end street called BS!
Move along further down the main street please

[tigrus]

Originally Posted by tigrus


I suggest you go read it again, and then post a well thought out ON TOPIC post.

Have a nice day.

Waves everybody on
Nothing to see here, this is just a dead end street called BS!
Move along further down the main street please

That post was refering to the thread Escalation of the War.

[jared96]

is this wrong? do people who may not be high achievers in RL not have the right to come here and work hard and achieve here thus giving them an escape? I'm not one of these people but I dont begrudge anyone who is. There are those who have put time and effort into building their character for the sole purpose of winning, they make friends who they work hard with to win.

Not at all.....in and of it self.

But it's with all too often "what goes with it"....a great example of which immediately follows your post. When the "need to win" is accompanied by disrespect, total disregard for other people's enjoyment, name calling and other behavior is where the "wrong" comes in.

[jared96]

Im not sure if you even got the point of why that was done?

I know "why it was done".... it's certainly not "out of character". However the fact that you don't see why such an act is fundamentally wrong, leaves us without a basis to hold a reasonable discussion.

[danolt]

I have always felt the term neutral was a poor fit to describe the situation in Atys. Neutral implies a lack of bias, when there is a strong argument that 'neutrals' are the most biased, rejecting to accept the laws of the Karavan, the Kami, or the nations.

I try and always use the term nonfactioned. This removes the hidden implication that the nonfactioned player is looking without bias or lacks an agenda. For instance only in the minds of those who want to be victims and/or demagogues is there any "persecution" of "neutral" characters.

PvP vs PvE does not fall within the faction and nonfactioned arguments, it is a very separate issue that does not serve the overall nonfactioned population, just a subset thereof.

I am of the opinion that the Kitin threat, Racial competition, and the Faction wars are separate story lines. The faction wars have had a very, very long chapter and now the devs should work on advancing the other plot lines.

As we all know it is way past time the story moved on, I know many of you think that it is within the ability of individual characters to bring this about. I envy you your vision, however I personally feel that we have a responsibility as players to play our characters as they develop and not to change because the winds are blowing from a different direction.

I think if we all just keep being who we are in game, it will be easier for GF to prioritize and have a grasp of what we as players want. One of the amazing things about this game is that so many players stay within the storylines, most prolly quite unintentionally, but it works.

I admit I enjoy the political competition, the heat, being out maneuvered, the whole thing. What I do not accept is that other players control my characters perception, that they force my character to do things I as a player do not want to do.

My point, in short, there is no faction vs unfactioned. It is a myth, a choice, smoke and mirrors to advance the political ambitions of players and that is not a bad thing.

[tigrus]

Leaves us without a basis to hold a reasonable discussion.

How on earth can we hold a reasonable discussion when you refuse to read the posts thoroughly and just post on random without thinking your posts through?

I mean, the post you made was wrong on so many levels I was sincerely surprised you even posted....