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Re: It's a PvP poll not a flame thread o_o

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:51 pm
by aardnebb
danolt wrote:The PvP system is fine. The not being able to get OP like rewards and build things without PvP is the problem

Pero

I like this response. I would have a _lot_ less problems with the PvP system if there was an alternative to PvPing for the best goodies.

I vote no, its not working, as people are leaving the game as a result of it. Also the positive feedback loop of winning side gets better weapons and levels twice as fast means that it'd take a _major_ event to turn things around.

EDIT1: Heya Asto! good ta seeya again!
EDIT2: Forumusers poll does not equal a full poll of the playerbase, but it is certainly a poll of a proportion of the playerbase, specifically those with either the inclination to read game forums or the ability to check webpages at work or similar. Its about as close to a "real" poll of the playerbase as you are gonna get without requiring each player lodges an oppinion before logging into the game or something...

Re: It's a PvP poll not a flame thread o_o

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:58 pm
by kiexa
re edit 2, yep its a poll, a poll o the forum users, not all that vote yes or no use the forums, its a poll, thats what happens.

everyone that wants to vote yes may or may not read the forums, but are no more inclined to do so or not so than the no`s so dont see your arguement sprite as a valid one.

vote what you want, but dont say the vote is stupid cause there may be a chance not everyone on both sides are voting lol

Re: It's a PvP poll not a flame thread o_o

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:05 am
by sprite
In the interests of adhering to the spirit of the thread I won't indulge those posts with a reply :)

Re: It's a PvP poll not a flame thread o_o

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:07 am
by kiexa
just your complaint is unjustified :P unbias also i must point out ;)

Re: It's a PvP poll not a flame thread o_o

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:24 am
by pyrrhon
I just wanted to clarify my response. The PvP mechanics are fine. The OP/Cat system is incredibly flawed as others have pointed out and I believe is the cause of Nevrax's demise. If I could burn all the OPs, I would in a second.

Re: It's a PvP poll not a flame thread o_o

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:22 am
by rellis
No.

Sometimes people forget this is a game we all play to have fun and escape the humdrum of real life. The OP and FvF system is realistic. The Karavan are a greater and larger force, they have been much more organised than Kami for many many months. As a result they have had the opportunity to lvl twice as fast as the average Op-less Kami. Definitely the case of any new Kami guild who simply does not have the contacts or means to barter for cats. So i will repeat yes the System is realistic, Superior numbers, organisation and higher levels will win 90% of time . maybe even 99% of time

But is it fun?

To point to Musmus first post, he hits the nail on the head . Some of us play football for fun and a challenge (fitness too but my analogy to that is a bit murky). To analogise this with Ryzom,

Fun= good humoured PvP, no insults, no flaming, just harmless avatar whacking fun . Perhaps this is just my idea of it?

Challenge = Possibility of winning and losing. The shear adrenaline that comes with being so close and knowing that all could be bitterly lost or gloriously won in a few moments . As Kiexa said, the number of blue vs red dots tells this before it begins.


So for instance say we are here at half time, the Kara Alliance is 10 goals/ Ops ahead (with possibility of taking many more at relative ease) , what would you do? Continue as it is and demoralise your friends/fellow players to the point that even the most die hard become utterly frustrated with the obvious inequality.
Or would you do as we done years ago ( are we too corrupted by greed in our later life?) , try and balance up the teams so both teams get the right amount of Fun and challenge ?

To make myself clear I would not ask or expect any team to switch sides as that would be ridiculous. Therefore there has to be some sort of handicap or balancing features introduced in order to keep this game fun. Be they certain penalties for owning Ops , Opening up all the Ops and limiting number of Ops you can hold whilst reducing cat production, the list is vast to possible balancing features. one of mine from months ago was this (half way down) (although it is probably too late to implement such a change)
http://www.ryzom.com/forum/showthread.p ... osts+zahan

As it is , the Karavan forces could hold all the Outposts, even our own fluffy OP O.o :p , fair play to them for organising themselves to become that force. But I must ask them do they want a challenge in Outposts? Do they want to give the Kami a chance to bring the fun, challenge and excitement back into PvP, would they agree with certain implementations being brought in to even the playing field?

The alternative could be that the Kara forces win and Kami become a servant to the karavan , altho i do not think this is the desired direction for the Lore. Would people prefer this? Spires could hardly work under these circumstances

Being neutral i care little about kara or kami. I do care for the game. however i have been known to show up for the Kami for fairness and balancing sake .If people are leaving due to a perceived or obvious imbalance then something needs to be addressed either by the players or the Devs or both.

Remember we play this for fun and escapism, the RL is already full of inequality

Just my two very long winded dappers (sorry few beers really made me ramble :p )

Re: It's a PvP poll not a flame thread o_o

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:51 am
by vguerin
rellis wrote:As it is , the Karavan forces could hold all the Outposts, even our own fluffy OP O.o :p , fair play to them for organising themselves to become that force. But I must ask them do they want a challenge in Outposts? Do they want to give the Kami a chance to bring the fun, challenge and excitement back into PvP, would they agree with certain implementations being brought in to even the playing field?
[OOC]Part of the problem is the lack of a polar opposition to the organised Karavan guilds. The Karavan guilds are not fighting Kamists anymore and haven't been for quite some time unfortunately.
The alternative could be that the Kara forces win and Kami become a servant to the karavan , altho i do not think this is the desired direction for the Lore. Would people prefer this? Spires could hardly work under these circumstances
There is no end game concerning OP's whatsoever. They are a not tied into the faction stuff, which in itself is barely part of the game.
If people are leaving due to a perceived or obvious imbalance then something needs to be addressed either by the players or the Devs or both.
A major way for the dev's to lose another big batch of players is to mess with things like this. Each server is supposed to make their own legacy, and it should not be coerced by fake balancing mechanism's.

I share some of your thoughts on other things but to keep in the spirit of this thread I am not going to go there :P [/OOC]

Re: It's a PvP poll not a flame thread o_o

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 5:10 am
by katriell
Each server is supposed to make their own legacy, and it should not be coerced by fake balancing mechanism's.
QFE!

Outpost ownership may reflect each server's political state. I consider them the tangible tokens of a conflict that is in fact much more complex than "two factions at each other's throats for the rest of eternity."

Re: It's a PvP poll not a flame thread o_o

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:55 am
by aek21
assuming op wars are fanction wars pvp works almost perfect
assuming its a guild vs guild it doesnt

i wont vote yes or not coz thats something depending on the way u look things

numbers usually are the main reason for the outcome of a battle but is not the only game i ve played where numbers tend to be more for one side so nothing unfamiliar with

improvment and new feutures could definatelly be added and for most players who have attend many fights i m sure is something they would like 2 see

we all know this aint gone happen in the near future whilst the nevrax situation remains as it is

maybe the op which were supposed 2 be out from day 1 the game run; took so long and although game was supposed 2 be pvp orientated this didnt happened at first place and thats something that definatelly has influence things in all aspects invluding further development

Re: It's a PvP poll not a flame thread o_o

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:06 am
by karmelit
The problem concerning the OP's and their rewards makes the karavan guilds level twice as fast... hm, interesting.

Sounds to me they will run out of things to do faster than the kamis. It also gives me reason to reflect on the different ideologies the two factions have.

Does the sum add up to the conclusion that the kami alligned homins will be the ones taking over Atys in the end?
(Unless they despair because of their brothers/sisters who become more powerful faster)