A vision of Cho (Golden age)

[sprite]

The alliances will still be possible however. The only thing that needs to be set in stone is the rules of attack (involving allies appearing to come attack/defend)

That's not really GvG then is it? It's more like alliance vs alliance, and the "most logical" routes for alliances to form is along faction boundaries, which then gets back to FvF.

One of the possible solutions may be that a guild in attack and a guild in defence are allowed to have the same number of helping hands.

That has the oft-posted problem of only involving the highest level people, making it the preserve of the multi-masters and not very "newb-friendly" Also, you say the same number of "helping hands" - would this mean that both sides would be identical in size (ie Defender+allies = Attacker+allies)? Or that each guild can bring as many of its own as it likes, and then have the same number of allies as the other side does (which allows hugeguildA to bring 50 of its own + 20 allies, when fighting against tinyguildB + 20 allies) which brings us back to huge guilds getting w/e they want.

Don't get me wrong, I think GvG would be a nice idea if it could be done right and if everyone wanted it that way. The problem is that I really don't see it coinciding with the usual things that are tagged alongside it (ie peace and harmony and no faction hatred etc etc), and besides that, I haven't seen any suggestions so far as to how it could work that haven't been filled with idea-destroying flaws.

[spoloh]

I did not mean it as an assault on Samsara, mylord Grimjim.

What I meant is to have a neutral guild that will serve as a tool of balance... Call it Keppers of balance or whatever but these guys will HAVE TO PvP at every op fight to make up for the numbers of aither attackers or defenders no matter the faction.

As a matter of fact these guys would experience the most PvP in game...

But everyone has to agree that such tool is needed...

[grimjim]

I did not mean it as an assault on Samsara, mylord Grimjim.

What I meant is to have a neutral guild that will serve as a tool of balance... Call it Keppers of balance or whatever but these guys will HAVE TO PvP at every op fight to make up for the numbers of aither attackers or defenders no matter the faction.

As a matter of fact these guys would experience the most PvP in game...

But everyone has to agree that such tool is needed...

If you're addressing me IC could you use my character name to avoid confusion? Ta

I wasn't taking it as an assault, just want to make sure things are clear is all.

[sehracii]

The problem we have that has developed on Arispotle is that FvF leads very quickly to a positive feedback loop.

One side gets stronger to more join that side, so it gets stronger and gets more outposts, which make it stronger and get more people to join it and... you get the picture. There's no real balancing mechanism and FvF and lack of controling measures get it out of hand.

The "feedback loop" theory is absolute baloney. Arispotle outposts have been stagnant for months. For various reasons controling measures HAVE occurred.

[grimjim]

The "feedback loop" theory is absolute baloney. Arispotle outposts have been stagnant for months. For various reasons controling measures HAVE occurred.

No, it isn't, and the imbalance is still there.
Stagnation - not balance - has occurred due to a combined effort by everyone apart from the dominant alliance. We're yet to see any kind of reversal or restoration to actual balance.

[sehracii]

No, it isn't, and the imbalance is still there.
Stagnation - not balance - has occurred due to a combined effort by everyone apart from the dominant alliance. We're yet to see any kind of reversal or restoration to actual balance.

"Imbalance," whether it is true or not, is not the same thing as a positive feedback loop. You're saying one side continually gets stronger and takes more outposts and that is simply not the case at all.

[grimjim]

"Imbalance," whether it is true or not, is not the same thing as a positive feedback loop. You're saying one side continually gets stronger and takes more outposts and that is simply not the case at all.

Outposts are a symptom, and it is true.

Who has the most? How did they get them? What exactly is it that has stopped this going any further at present - not for lack of trying?

More OPs = more cats = stronger (faster) and more people, that combined with the other factors that attract more to one side tips the balance - indeed those factors caused most of the initial tip that started the loop up.

[ajsuk]

If you stopped assigning true neutral guilds to the "evil empire" you'd find it would be balanced or perhaps even now in the favor of the... er... "other side"? .

[grimjim]

If you stopped assigning true neutral guilds to the "evil empire" you'd find it would be balanced or perhaps even now in the favor of the... er... "other side"? .

Such as who?
And remember, numbers alone isn't it and even now they're just about even (in fights, its harder to judge populations).

Isn't it just a _touch_ hypocritical to be complaining about assigning 'neutral' guilds to the wrong side?

[ajsuk]

No, I said true neutral. For good reason.