Ryzom

raynes wrote: Because there should be more to the game then xp and crafting.

Agreed. And there already is. We have PvP and RP. The RP aspect need some serious attention though.

raynes wrote: All game content shouldn't be centered around crafting

It isn't, though I am sure you knew that before you typed it.
Although, no game content should have a negative effect on the player economy. Phatlewt does just that. Mob drops or quest rewards that give out high end equipment reduce the need for crafters, and that is a bad thing.

New mats, special patterns or consumable items would all be acceptable rewards. Uber Armor or weopons would not.

While I agreed with you that SoR's evolution has not been as quick as we wanted it to be, or even differed widely from its original promises at points, our vision of developement obviously goes seperate ways...

raynes wrote:.snip.
Because there should be more to the game then xp and crafting. There needs to be rewards for doing things that are useful to all professions. All game content shouldn't be centered around crafting.

Define content. Wait.. forget about that, we've had that on different occasions already.
"Content" here is in no way crafting centered, IMO, and there is far more than crafting and XP. But that's not the subject of this thread.
This whole discussion is based on what you just said, it seems:

raynes wrote:There needs to be rewards for doing things ...

Why? While you stated it as being absolutely mandatory, you didn't tell me (us) why that is the case.
Honestly.. I don't see that. The next step would be not to discuss about what drops there, but rather what to name the "Ruins of Silan, High Level restricted Kitin version", something that is not in line with Atys' original philosophy.
Naturally, we will have to disagree on the subject of the nature of rewardings and rewards if we approach the necessity of rewards differently.

How about an alternative ...

1. Lair mobs only drop normal mats, no full item drops or lair mats.

2. The lair mission is hard to complete (kill an uber boss or 1 billion kitins, etc), repeatable and the reward is random: random number of lair mats (1-3) and random lair mat types (for armour shell or for lining or for stuffing, etc)

3. New plans for the new items.

4. Lair mats can not be mixed with normal mats when crafting.

5. Players can exchange lair mats among themselves.

So be prepared for some grinding if you want the best items in the game. And be prepared for some craft failures, no more "one successful Aen raid = 100% chances for a full set".



I don't understand why a mats reward only is so bad and why non crafter players will be screwed. Is there a fighter or a mage that never crafted anything himself and that runs around wearing nothing but npc shop items? That never gathered mats and never asked a crafter to make an item for him? I know of one mmorpg that has 1 crafting class and 30 non crafting classes and guess what? Those 30 classes are not screwed, they wear crafted items.

The solution to me would be simple, make the reward from killing the kitin boss either

Unique or different looking armour peices that are as nearly as good as the very best a crafter can make. And make it so that you need to kill the boss many times in order to obtaina full set ie leading to trades etc.

A special mat or mats like op ones that can be used to make new and unique looking armour peices that simply change the skin of the armour and its quality depends upon the caster.

What those who are against the crafters here are on about I really don't get, how can you not see that for a crafter after the massive effort gone into levelling several harvest tree's then the armour skill tree's should simply be bettered by a boss mob that will be easily farmable. It's taking literally years of hard work to be "the best" and then urinating on you by allowing those eho can't craft an ability to farm for armour/items. The way a balances economy works is that those who craft need fighters or foragers to obtain the best mats, those who want the best armour to fight in need those who have dedicated themselves to crafting or foraging instead of combat.

To upset that balance is a terrible injustice to those it harms.

xolghost wrote: This whole discussion is based on what you just said, it seems:Why? While you stated it as being absolutely mandatory, you didn't tell me (us) why that is the case.
Honestly.. I don't see that. The next step would be not to discuss about what drops there, but rather what to name the "Ruins of Silan, High Level restricted Kitin version", something that is not in line with Atys' original philosophy.
Naturally, we will have to disagree on the subject of the nature of rewardings and rewards if we approach the necessity of rewards differently.

You joined in June 2006, you have no idea what the original philosophy really was. It's been changed and long gone. The game now is nothing like the game was meant to be. So we won't go down that road.

As to why it's manditory for there to be a reward for doing things. It's simple really, to keep people interested and long time players from leaving. You have only played the game for 3 months. You are not at the point yet where going out and killing mobs for xp or even roleplaying killing them for a purpose has become boring.

That is after all the entire purpose in creating the Kitin Lair. It's not to just put some new mobs in the game. It's to create an area where long time players can do something new and different and be rewarded new and differently.

Please, raynes.. do not let the 2006 fool you.
I been around since Betas constantly, I simply do not post with my main account anymore (and that one is so old, it even has capital letters within).

Your whole argumentation of the last post was wrapped about me being "too young to understand".
Thank you for disqualifying yourself and your arguments. Play soccer? Own Goal...

mjoll wrote:
I don't understand why a mats reward only is so bad and why non crafter players will be screwed.

Why should someone who does not craft, go through all the work of beating the Kitin Lair only to receive and item they have to give to someone else to be useful?

At this point I'm done debating. In the end if the devs make the rewards for the bosses like the bosses all over the game, the end result will be the same. Lots of bosses with no one bothering to fight them cause the rewards are a joke. Which turns to lots of bored players who don't stick around.

You can scream how nothing should change in the game, but in doing do nor does the game population. Think about that.

I have to say... I'm about tired of the rediculous notion that newer players have had no experience whatsoever with the dregs of high level frustration. Many of us have had the same experiences you are complaining about in other games. Ryzom is not the only game with max level players looking for something new.

The frustrations presented on the forums are the same old complaints of most end-game players in most MMO's. It's nothing new.

It's about time people stop focusing on the past, and start looking towards to future of the game. What might have been the direction of the game before, may very well not be now. Things change, and people need to learn to adapt to change, or the forums will be filled with little more than rants about what should have been.

The Ryzom developers seem to be much more involved with player feedback than any other game I've had experience with, and it would make more sense to me to provide well thought out feedback on preferred courses of action, with well thought out and respectful debate.

But one thing that will not do any good, is telling someone who is newer to the game that their opinion is worth less when they are paying the same price to play the game. Current high level player's frustrations are the future frustrations of newer players. Some of us would like to offer our input on what will effect us then as much as it effects you now. Some of us have a fresh perspective that hasn't yet been effected by frustrations of issues that have long since been corrected, or are in the pipeline to be corrected by a company with a relatively small budget fighting the against the tide of large budget developers.

New players mean more revenue, and more content for higher level players. Alienating them due to newness is to cut your nose off in spite of your face.

raynes wrote:Why should someone who does not craft, go through all the work of beating the Kitin Lair only to receive and item they have to give to someone else to be useful?

because that is the basis of our world.

let me put it another way. Life on Atys is a circle. The hunters and gatherers go out, use their skills and return with craftable materials. The crafters take these materials and produce equipment. They give this back to the hunters and gatherers to help them. It's a cycle that we all follow. every single homin uses equipment that a crafter has made, made in most cases after thousends of hours of training, just as the fighters have trained to be able to use it. And so the wheel turns, round and round.

This cycle works well, it encourages community, it gives everyone a sense of worth. every time non crafted loot is introduced to the game a godlike hand flicks this delicate balance. Sooner or later the balance will fail, the crafters will give up and Nevrax will have no option to introduce more and more loot as the crafters have no reason to craft anything.

this point is really not up for argument its a fact. I have never resorted to using capitals but it's a FACT! Look at the other games cited here, look at what everyone here is saying, you cant escape this simple truth.

I can't understand your arguments i really can't, they make no sense. From previous experience i understand you like to argue, god knows i still remember when you properly left the first time. Don't give me any arguments about time spent. I have been here as long as you, but unlike you i have been here the whole time. I have a sound perspective on how Atys has been changing, and the long term effects of changes to the gameplay that have been made.

Your quote above is, to put it as mildy as i can, silly, reactionist, and frankly not worthy of serious contemplation.

Originally Posted by raynes
Why should someone who does not craft, go through all the work of beating the Kitin Lair only to receive and item they have to give to someone else to be useful?

Why should someone who does not hunt, go through all the work of grinding a armour tree/melee weapon/jewel crafting tree and the item they produce they have to give to you? ungrateful ***