Ryzom

beeryusa wrote:So I've been playing the game on the island for nearly two weeks now. I've levelled up to almost 50 in offensive magic and armour crafting and, although I like the game a lot, the question I'm still asking myself is 'Do I really want to spend money on this game?'

If you really like the game so far, what's the harm in spending USD$15 to see if you like mainland enough to continue to pay?

beeryusa wrote:I mean, sure the game's combat and crafting aspect work well, but I can't get into harvesting - it seems very counter-intuitive as a game feature design, and if I ignore that (as it seems I must because I find it annoying) I really have a problem with killing stuff as the only way to keep me interested in a game. It has never worked for me in the past. To be honest it just gets very boring for me. AI creatures always do the same things, and once you've seen it a few times it gets old.

Ryzom is a bit different than that. Animals are not as predictable as other games, they are much more alive, and do not have established patterns of travel the way they do in other games. It is much more apparent on the mainland, IMHO.

As for harvesting... the initial levels are somewhat tedious, but as you level up it gets much more interesting.

beeryusa wrote:If harvesting seemed more intuitive I might find more to like about the game from my non-combat-biased perspective, but still I'd be looking for either roleplay aspects (the lore etc.) and/or looking to relax in a tavern or cantina a lot of the time, and if the game doesn't have those things as possibilities I'm really thinking that I should keep my $15 and stick with SW:G's entertainer profession.

Most games don't have those sorts of things. Most of the current gaming selection relies heavily on questing/grinding. Ryzom is a fair bit different than most games, and I find myself enjoying the various styles of play. But, we each have our own way of doing things, and you need to find which is best for you.

beeryusa wrote:I think I need real human interaction on a level that doesn't just involve talking about what armour to use or what attacks and defences creatures have. I guess what I'd like to see is more 'world' - more depth behind the mechanics of killing creatures for loot. From what I've read about this game, it just doesn't have any of that on more than a very superficial level. The game lore is there, but it's not supported by any real game mechanics that I know of, and there's just nothing supporting any entertainer content - in fact such content is almost entirely nonexistent.

I haven't had more than a simple 5 minute conversation about armor. Most of it has been regular social interaction, discussing lore, the beauty of Atys, all sorts of things. Discussing armor is the option of the player, not a requirement for the game.

I know very few people who would be interested in playing an entertainer. I don't know how much of a demand there is for it. I would imagine that if lots of players want such a thing, more games would offer it... but that's just a speculation.

You haven't been to mainland yet, so assuming the game mechanics don't support the lore while on the tutorial island is a bit premature. I don't know how much of the lore you have read... but it's much better than EQ2, where the lore doesn't match that of the first EQ, and the current state of the game doesn't match the lore for EQ2.

Lore being tied into a game relies heavily on the player base, more so than the game mechanics. If you want to get involved in the story, then get involved in the story.

beeryusa wrote:I want to have the game entertain me, but perhaps my needs are just not going to be met by this game. It's a pity, but there it is. I might put $15 into the game to try it out for a single month, just to see if there is anything at all that's going to hold my interest, but I feel the lack of musical/dance content, the lack of true player housing, and the lack of any 'Third Place' make this game little more than a more sandbox-friendly version of Lineage II.

Well, you haven't actually played the game yet. So far, you've taken the free tutorial. There is a lot of fun to be had on mainland. But, if you have made up your mind, I wish you well in your quest for the "better game".

truce1 wrote:I understand this.

I think alot of new players are getting the same feeling as you.

I'm a new player... only been in Ryzom for about a month and a half, including my tutorial island time. I love the game, it's refreshing, alive, and very entertaining to me.

I think people should get to mainland and try the actual game before making up their minds about the actual game. It's much different on mainland than on the trial island.

rothimar wrote:I'm a new player... only been in Ryzom for about a month and a half, including my tutorial island time. I love the game, it's refreshing, alive, and very entertaining to me.

I think people should get to mainland and try the actual game before making up their minds about the actual game. It's much different on mainland than on the trial island.

Do you really think that will change?

I don’t think the mainland has any of those things either.

And if this is the feeling people are getting in the trial, shouldn’t it be there that they feel satisfied and not the mainland, as the trial is to get people to get to the mainland and pay?

I never assumed the trial was going to be like the rest of the game. I looked at it as a tutorial to learn how to play the game, and get used to the mechanics a bit before subscribing.

The mainland doesn't offer entertainer professions, and I would be willing to bet the demand for such hasn't been enough for Nevrax to add them to the game. At least not as of yet.

The player housing on mainland serves the same purpose for me as it did in EQ2. Storage. I can't invote others into my apartment at the moment, that hasn't been added yet. Does that ruin the game for me? Well, not at all. if I wanted to socialize with someone in an RP environment, the ability to stop by the local tavern does exist. The beauty of roleplay is the use of one's imagination, and a good roleplayer doesn't need weeks of development time and effort to have the game do it for them.

If the trial island was as good as the rest of the game, more people would stay on the free island rather than move to the mainland.

You have to understand that each and every game has its own pro's and con's. It's all in finding the right combination for you. The only game I am aware of that offers entertainment professions is SWG, which is unfortunately currently under the dominion of SoE which is notorious for ruining the games they run.

BeeryUSA was commenting on things she has read about the mainland, without experiencing any of it. While someone else's opinion can help shape one's own, actually seeing it for yourself is a much better way to guage a game. There are enough good sides to Ryzom to outway the lack of a couple of things I would like to see. The community is 1000 times better than any I have seen to date in any other game.

Perhaps Nevrax should have a screen that pops up each time a free account logs in that reminds them the isle is to try out the mechanics, and get a feel for the game. The isle is a tutorial open to any who wish to download it.

Unfortunately, people get the impression that the tutorial *is* how the rest of the game is, and some of them form their opinions of what they haven't seen on a few posts from people who still pay to play, and are mentioning something they would like to see changed.

*EDIT* - additional thought...

What I am interested to know is... I came through the same tutorial island you are referring to, and I didn't get any negative feelings whatsoever. Neither did any of the new players I run around Atys with at present. What's changed in the last couple of weeks?

Perhaps this whole thing is simply about a couple of people the game doesn't fit well with, and this is being blown way out of proportion?

There will always be features people want, but aren't there. There will always be fixes needed, new content desired, and everyone wants the game tailored to their own personal tastes. It is that way will all online games. It's simply impossible to please all the people, all the time.

Perhaps with R2, things will be more interesting for you with player created content? Dunno.

truce1 wrote:Do you really think that will change?

I don’t think the mainland has any of those things either.

And if this is the feeling people are getting in the trial, shouldn’t it be there that they feel satisfied and not the mainland, as the trial is to get people to get to the mainland and pay?

rothimar wrote: Perhaps this whole thing is simply about a couple of people the game doesn't fit well with, and this is being blown way out of proportion?

There will always be features people want, but aren't there. There will always be fixes needed, new content desired, and everyone wants the game tailored to their own personal tastes. It is that way will all online games. It's simply impossible to please all the people, all the time.

Finally, someone who sees beyond the flames.

Thak you, great post.

Acridiel

rothimar wrote:If you really like the game so far, what's the harm in spending USD$15 to see if you like mainland enough to continue to pay?

It's $15 that I'm now fairly sure would be a waste of money. I'm willing to do it, but I'm gauging the community to finally figure out whether it would be worth it or not.

Animals are not as predictable as other games, they are much more alive, and do not have established patterns of travel the way they do in other games. It is much more apparent on the mainland, IMHO.

Well I'm seeing patterns in the behaviour of the island animals. The thing is, the island is supposed to prepare players for the mainland and act as a sort of advert for it. Unfortunately I've yet to see anything unique from my time on the island - and it's not like I haven't given it a fair try. Again, basically, this game is Lineage II with a bit more character and less grind - but that hardly makes it stand out from the crowd.

I know very few people who would be interested in playing an entertainer. I don't know how much of a demand there is for it. I would imagine that if lots of players want such a thing, more games would offer it... but that's just a speculation.

But that hardly helps me. I do want to play as an entertainer, and I already play a game (SWG) that gives me that opportunity (and I can assure you that SWG had a thriving entertainer community that indicated that such a playstyle would have a huge demand if more games would offer it - but that's beside the point). My question - as it has always been since I started the thread - is "Why should I, as a player that prefers to have a bit more than the standard MMOG experience, take up this game?"

rothimar wrote:Perhaps this whole thing is simply about a couple of people the game doesn't fit well with, and this is being blown way out of proportion?

This thread is ALL about whether I (that's just me) can fit into the game. That's why I posted the question in the first place. It's not supposed to be a 'one size fits all' discussion about how the game can suit a whole segment of the gaming population; nor is my opinion supposed to be a critique of world-shattering import. I don't see how discussing one person's preferences and one person's place in the game can be blowing things out of proportion, as my preferences are only relevant to me, and if I decide I don't like the game that decision need have no impact on anyone else.

I agree - let's keep things in proportion - it's not like the game will be shut down just because I decide I don't want to play it. Of course if you think that my opinion is representative of many more people I guess that's a possibility.

beeryusa wrote:It's $15 that I'm now fairly sure would be a waste of money. I'm willing to do it, but I'm gauging the community to finally figure out whether it would be worth it or not.

You are only going to get a small portion of community on the forums. As in most MMO's, the majority of the player base has no clue there ARE forums. I believe I read somewhere that the average percentage of people who log into a games forums (not necessarily to post) is about 3%.

The best way to discover the nature of a community is to jump in and test the waters. It's difficult to do that from the lobby.

beeryusa wrote:Well I'm seeing patterns in the behaviour of the island animals. The thing is, the island is supposed to prepare players for the mainland and act as a sort of advert for it. Unfortunately I've yet to see anything that I desire in a MMORPG from my time on the island - and it's not like I haven't given it a fair try.

Other than the entertainer class, what sort of thing are you looking for? The island does exactly what is was intended to do. It educates you on how to play the game. It's a crash course. I have yet to play a game where a trial "zone" is offered that matches the actual game very well. They are a quick look into the mechanics.

What you have given a fair try is the tutorial, not the game. You might like mainland, you might not. I couldn't say one way or the other. But if you don't see *anything* on the isle that you want from an MMORPG, I have no idea what game you would be happy in. Most of them have similar elements to them. I personally think Ryzom has the best spin on the MMO concept, but that's me.

beeryusa wrote:But that hardly helps me. I do want to play as an entertainer, and I play a game that gives me that opportunity. My question - as it has always been since I started the thread - is "Why should I (not anyone else) take up this game?"

No other individual can answer that for you. That is a question one asks one's self. I can tell you why I play it, but I don't know you from a hole in the wall, so how could I offer you an opinion relevant to your play/lifestyle?

My suggestion, and you can take it or leave it, is to give the mainland a try for 1 month. It's better than going out and buying another game for $60 to see if you don't like that one too. I would suggest getting to mainland, socialize with some people, do some exploring. Get a feel for the game in its actual form. It's the only way to get the best opinion of all... your own.

I haven't played SWG (just not a George Lucas fan I guess) so please tell me what's the great thing about dancers? The only entertainers I played with online was bards in Neverwinter Nights and they could be hilarious but it was 100% roleplay. I'm just curious what role they had in SWG that you want to bring here.

Samsara sports a popular pub in Thesos where a large part of the roleplay community (at least the Kami/neutral part) come for a glass of firewine. There's room for more such events I think.

cloudy97 wrote:I haven't played SWG (just not a George Lucas fan I guess) so please tell me what's the great thing about dancers? The only entertainers I played with online was bards in Neverwinter Nights and they could be hilarious but it was 100% roleplay. I'm just curious what role they had in SWG that you want to bring here.

Let me put it this way - after playing as an entertainer in SWG I find it hard to conceive of playing a MMOG in any other capacity. Unless you've experienced playing an entertainer in SWG it's very hard to convey what it is about it that's so great, and I'd be the first to admit that it's often misunderstood (even by some SWG entertainers) - and it's an acquired taste. The thing is, I can actually play my own compositions in SWG, and I've never been able to do that - not even in real life, because I'm just not musically inclined. Basically, you get to create your own content that's your own personal musical contribution to the game. I guess SWG's entertainer profession has ruined me for every other game - unless thay have entertainer content. That's why I'd like to see that playstyle here - because there are many other things I like about Ryzom - but without some entertainer content and without the 'Third Place' and a reason to go there, those things about Ryzom that I like are not reason enough to pay to play.

Let me put it another way - even though the entertainer profession has been ignored by the SWG developers since day one, and even though SWG is a terribly mismanaged game, I still keep my account open because I can go into a cantina at any time and do my show - and my show is always entertaining - both for me and others. If I don't get something like that same buzz here that I get from entertaining in that terrible game (SWG) I really see no point in playing.

In short, I would rather put money in the hands of a completely incompetent development team who at least let me play as I want in an otherwise terrible game, than put money into the hands of a great development team who run a great game that doesn't offer me the playstyle I desire.