Neutral PVP tag: [was] Kami vs Karavan vs Neutral

[raven41]

lol... Owell... TPs are like they should be... If you want a tag go Kami/Kara you never had one before so it doesn't matter... What do you need a tag for as a neutral anyway other then to gank people.. if you want to "Hold turf" trek to a PR PvP zone and kick anyone who comes near out... You can PvP at OPs and Hold OPs You are not so restricted as you make it out to be... As for it not being the Dev's game... Then why should they bother fixing Bugs ... The players should have to program the game since its not the Dev's game... And if you are a game writer why don't you make a game that is exactly how you want it?

You are trying to change my opinion which is not going to happen because I don't agree with everyone getting = things... otherwise I should have my Ferrari now because some other people have them and its only fair that I have one too.

And once again... You only try to make me accept your point of view as right by rephrasing the same exact thing... You should NOT have the same things that other people have worked much harder for... To say you should is simply preposterous...On so many levels...

Final point--- From what you are saying... I should own a house and a nice car because my neighbors do. Even tho they worked for it and I haven't.

contrary to your belief there is no work in becoming neutral I can goto the Kami temple and do it in 10 seconds or less at anytime.

[edit] I do know that neutrals have less access then Factioned players I agree... But Factioned players did there missions and grinded fame for that access...[/edit]

[d29565]

Firstly, gaining kami or karavan fame really isn't that hard (if you've started out with the "new" fame thing). And even if you have had fame from before that patch, honestly, it isn't that hard to get fame. Do a few red con bandit missions, and you'll be 60 whatever in no time.

Also Red, I think you were holding on to tightly to the "tp access" part, and not the rest of what Jy. was saying. Jy. is right when he says that a truly neutral person has lost/doesn't gain a lot. So what, as a new player you start out as a neutral homin, 10 to 1 a new player doesn't stay neutral. But those people that put actual RP into their characters and into being neutral, especially like The Samsara have done (I just know their RP better than the other neutral guilds), really deserve more.

And, to keep PR access (to the harder to reach areas)-game mechanically-a neutral must work his or her fame to 60 over and over again, stock up tickets, and then go back to neutral. A Kami or a Karavan aligned person has it a lot easier, because they only have to work fame once.

And well, I'm not even going to waste time commenting on DT's post.

~Hope this seems logical, I'm in a rush, getting ready to head to work~

[raven41]

I never liked the Idea of the faction split in the first place... If neutrals had as much as Jy wants them to there would be alot more neutrals and further imbalance the Kami/Karavan... When I first did missions I did it with a friend we did missions and it took about 14 hours nonstop... Maybe that doesn't seem like alot but 14 hours is a long time to be doing missions (which I really really hate doing).

I have been listening to him... I am just sick of all the complaining of everyone in general... tbh I only argued at all because I am bored... I know its pointless to try because he wont listen or care about what I say... Unless I am agreeing with him... Otherwise all he will do is repeat the same thing over and over... Yes I know Neutrals lost a bit more and gained nothing... But if Neutrals had it all or even very close to the same as factioned players the story would get no where because neutrals would out number factioned players.

The complaining was why I left game in the first place... Maybe somewhere in me I was hoping I could get him to understand the way things work...

*tries to think of a good RL comparison* I don't get the same treatment as a cop ... I don't get a state car to drive and my gas paid for... Because I didn't goto collage or train to be a cop... Why should I get the same benefits as someone who did? ...

[grimjim]

lol... Owell... TPs are like they should be... If you want a tag go Kami/Kara you never had one before so it doesn't matter... What do you need a tag for as a neutral anyway other then to gank people.

For the reasons I gave before and I'm sure many others I haven't thought of since PvP isn't my bag.

Here's a possible scenario though.

One of those periodic battles in Yrkanis between tagged people is going on, the Kami hold the upper hand for a minute or two, then the Karavan start to fight back, a mercenary guild gets a communique from one of the Kami guild leaders.

"We'll pay you a million each and a stack of crystals each if you join us in our siege against Yrkanis."

For the pay, off we go, less effective than other Kami since there's a risk of friendly fire and confusion on all sides as to who's fighting for who, but that's all part of the 'fun'.

The Kami get the upper hand again. Over region comes a message from a Karavan guild leader. "Whatever they're paying! We'll double it!".

Ooh.... shiny, we change sides... (I did say this was only a 'possible' scenario ) and immediately, from the middle of the Kami side lay into them. Before too long the Kami can't make any headway, the day is won for the Karavan and we get a nice fat paycheque.

Ta daa.

As for it not being the Dev's game... Then why should they bother fixing Bugs ... The players should have to program the game since its not the Dev's game... And if you are a game writer why don't you make a game that is exactly how you want it?

I do.
But I also write games to fit 'the market' - which is the crudest form of player feedback that exists, altering my personal design goals to fit things that will sell or fit what playtesters/players want more.

You are trying to change my opinion which is not going to happen because I don't agree with everyone getting = things... otherwise I should have my Ferrari now because some other people have them and its only fair that I have one too.

Equal != Identical and RL isn't the same as a gameworld.
The theory IRL is that everyone gets equal opportunity and is equally valued, of course, it doesn't always work that way but artificial worlds can do better, that's the appeal of escapism.

So, while you might not get a ferrai, perhaps you end up getting a beautiful wife, or a jet pack, or a cabin in the alps instead of the ferrari.

And once again... You only try to make me accept your point of view as right by rephrasing the same exact thing... You should NOT have the same things that other people have worked much harder for... To say you should is simply preposterous...On so many levels...

Nope, but perhaps you should get other things. The PvP tag and faction chat really aren't that major and providing a neutral option for that, JUST that, everything else remaining the same in the context of this specific thread, how does that harm anything?

And how, precisely, is arguing for something I'm not interested in and probably wouldn't use, forcing my view on anyone? How is wanting the maximum possibility for everyone... bad? I really don't get that or why you think someone being compensated for sacrifice is preposterous.

contrary to your belief there is no work in becoming neutral I can goto the Kami temple and do it in 10 seconds or less at anytime.

But there is sacrifice. What's that worth?

[raven41]

You (Jyudas) mentioned that neutrality encompasses many playstyles.

Only a few of which are significantly negatively affected by the teleport restrictions. Namely, those who frequently visit Grove of Confusion, and those who regularly hunt fancy bosses.

Yes, I left out PR foragers because it's not that freaking hard to run a few hundred meters (a few tens of meters in some cases) to a portal from a usable teleport.

The only thing that annoys me about the selection of available teleports is the swim to Avendale. But hey, I suppose it generally saves me money/time/effort because no other neutrals can reach Avendale either, hence there's less stock on their merchants and therefore less reason to go there.

A Neutrals point of view... which I think is a pretty good one.

{edit response to above post} lol... I love the senario... But Do you know how hard it would be to fight if you could *accidentally* hit the people helping you? And just so you know I understand what you are saying... I just don't agree with it... at all... a neutral tag just doesn't have a good way of implementing to make everyone happy... And would just start new arguments... Such as "Oh he was helping us then turned on us to help him he is a dirty traitor" or "You're Kami because you help them more." Arguments that don't need to be added to the ones already here...

[grimjim]

*tries to think of a good RL comparison* I don't get the same treatment as a cop ... I don't get a state car to drive and my gas paid for... Because I didn't goto collage or train to be a cop... Why should I get the same benefits as someone who did? ...

Nor do you have the responsibilities of a cop. You're not expected to enforce laws, lay down your life to protect civilians, you're not duty bound to stuff yourself with doughnuts, pull over armed felons or break up fights outside pubs every night.

From a cop's point of view maybe you're living the good life.

Look at the Neutrals in AO, they were integrated, didn't really miss out on anything yet were still relatively small because a lot of people wanted to play the factions.

[grimjim]

A Neutrals point of view... which I think is a pretty good one.

{edit response to above post} lol... I love the senario... But Do you know how hard it would be to fight if you could *accidentally* hit the people helping you? And just so you know I understand what you are saying... I just don't agree with it... at all... a neutral tag just doesn't have a good way of implementing to make everyone happy... And would just start new arguments... Such as "Oh he was helping us then turned on us to help him he is a dirty traitor" or "You're Kami because you help them more." Arguments that don't need to be added to the ones already here...

We already have those.
Point is it would add value and versatility to the neutral groupings - should they choose to use it - while not being as 'good' as the factioned one, with its own inbuilt drawbacks you see.

I think things'd be fine with something along those lines and restored town access. That'd be about equitable in the current situation. Later on I'd like to see Tryton offering a non-power third way to open up other possibilities a little more.

[raven41]

Nor do you have the responsibilities of a cop. You're not expected to enforce laws, lay down your life to protect civilians, you're not duty bound to stuff yourself with doughnuts, pull over armed felons or break up fights outside pubs every night.

From a cop's point of view maybe you're living the good life.

Look at the Neutrals in AO, they were integrated, didn't really miss out on anything yet were still relatively small because a lot of people wanted to play the factions.

And nor do you have the responsibilities to help the Kami or Karavan...you're not expected to show up and defend every OP for your side...

And I wouldn't mind seeing Neutrals get Town TPs back.. Just not 250 zones and such.

[grimjim]

And nor do you have the responsibilities to help the Kami or Karavan...you're not expected to show up and defend every OP for your side...

And I wouldn't mind seeing Neutrals get Town TPs back.. Just not 250 zones and such.

We don't have the benefits of being part of one of those factions either. See? It does balance out. Or would, rather.

[raven41]

We don't have the benefits of being part of one of those factions either. See? It does balance out. Or would, rather.

rofl....Yep it does balance out... thank you for agreeing ttyl