A 2nd letter to FairHaven from AA

[akm72]

...However, wasn't Fung-tun a Karavan supporter and insane to boot?

He doesn't seem to be a Karavan supporter so much as a Jena one according to this;

2504;
Fung-Tun reinstates Jena as Kami Superior and banishes Mabreka who finds refuge in Pyr.
...
Slavery accepted on continent of Witherings to combat the goo.

But he didn't become insane until 2506, after being contaminated by goo the year before.

[danolt]

The Karavan are not Jena. They are followers of Her faith, not the Faith. Her commandments do not say obey them, only to honor them. Their words are not law. The Karavan should be heard and their words pondered over. They offer us choices and insights. It is also very possible that we are hearing them incorrectly. How often have the words of the teller been misconstrued in just this one discussion.

As for the Trykers having to fear the Matis over the other races. I suppose these dire predictions are coming from those who have yet to claim Tryker citizenship. Once you are a Tryker citizen your maximum fame for Zoari is 0, for Fyros 25 and for our neighbors to the north 75.

You can say that the Matis are the largest threat to the Lakelands. To do that, you have to define threat as living together and sharing the benefits of each others culture. Threat would have to mean a common set of beliefs and the very real probability that a Matis through service to Fairhaven could have more influence then a just confirmed Tryker citizen and vice a versa.

Pero

[akm72]

...
Today, I am convinced that the Karavan aligned Matis no longer wish to dominate us.

And yet the Matis alone amongst all the races still regard the Bounty Beach Slavers as their friends.

I am not advocating war, but it may come with or without my advocacy. If it does and we are divided or isolationist, we may lose that freedom we value so highly.

I agree, which is why it is so important that we find a position that all Trykers can agree on, and not just those who put Jena on a pedestal.

[philu]

The Karavan are not Jena. They are followers of Her faith, not the Faith. Her commandments do not say obey them, only to honor them. Their words are not law. The Karavan should be heard and their words pondered over. They offer us choices and insights.

Throughout the recent history of Atys, the Karavan have issued commandments not choices. It is nonsense to claim otherwise.

"Do not go into the Prime Roots." Where's the choice there?

"Do not fight the Goo." No choice there other than be punished for doing it.

(Note: I don't deny that the Kami have also issued commandments - "Do not damage the planet". My point is you can't claim that the Karavan don't issue orders that they expect to be obeyed.)

As for the Trykers having to fear the Matis over the other races. I suppose these dire predictions are coming from those who have yet to claim Tryker citizenship. Once you are a Tryker citizen your maximum fame for Zoari is 0, for Fyros 25 and for our neighbors to the north 75.

I fail to see your point? How will your fame protect you if any of the races decide to invade?

[danolt]

I agree, which is why it is so important that we find a position that all Trykers can agree on, and not just those who put Jena on a pedestal.

As do I that is why I made the request to support our Governor. Can you do that?

[akm72]

As do I that is why I made the request to support our Governor. Can you do that?

Ideally yes, but when he asks us to ally with a people who openly declare their friendship with the slavers, and against the loyal partisans in the Corsairs (many Trykers must have friends or family who are members of that tribe), I have to wonder what game he is playing. My guess is that this is like the Tryker approach to the Karavan; telling them we support them wholeheartedly and passing the laws they order us to, while not actually enforcing them in practice.

[danolt]

There are no ideals. The world will not be perfect, no matter how hard you want it to be. If you can not support Still Wyler and the freely elected Tryker government because you do not agree with its every policy what will you stand for?

And in case you did not know, Still Wyler was a Corsair.

Pero

[akm72]

There are no ideals. The world will not be perfect, no matter how hard you want it to be. If you can not support Still Wyler and the freely elected Tryker government because you do not agree with its every policy what will you stand for?

And in case you did not know, Still Wyler was a Corsair.

Pero

I obey the Tryker ideals of "freedom, equality and sharing", they take precedence over the policy of whoever is in government at the time.
When Still Wyler gives us instructions that will result in civil war between Trykers, and will set us against our primary trading partners in the desert, there are only three possibilities;

1/ He's insane or stupid, or is at least easily manipulated by the Karavan and/or the Matis.
2/ He has infomation that proves that the Kami are as serious a threat as the Karavan claim.
3/ He's playing a high risk game where he gives the orders that the Karavan and Matis want, and is relying on the Trykers to use their common sense and see that he doesn't really want them to be obeyed.

I don't believe that the first one is true, Wyler has shown himself to be a good leader in the past.
If the second was true, all he has to do is show us the infomation to get the Trykers to pull together, the fact that he hasn't strongly indicates that he can't. If he had this infomation he should also have presented it to the Fyros and Zorai, to get as many of them as possible to switch to our side - again, he fact that he hasn't strongly indicates that the infomation he has isn't good enough to convince anyone but a dedicated believer in Jena.
Which leaves us with the third choice, which has the benefit that it also follows the precedent set by our relationship with the Karavan.

[walls124]

IC:

I have Wandered over all of Atys. Seen the other realms, but always returned to my beautiful homeland. The lakelands. But this second letter from those fools guild called AA. Irritates and saddens me. It leaves me feeling alienated in my beautiful homeland. Threading the Corsair road is a though one.

But I have always doubted those deities. Their ultimate goal are so unknown that we barely can comprehend what it will mean for us poor homins, and if it really will be the best thing that could happen for hominkind. For now Balance might serve us best. No matter how though it is to be Kami in Tryker realm.

Still... I have lost much threading the path I have chosen. Seeing the same who drove a wedge into the tryker population. Yelling about unity...
Once the tryker government guarded both construction sites. That was the will of the people. Whit the fall of the Hawks. Karavan got rid of their opposition in Tryker realm.

I do not care any longer, I will search out a peacefully corner in Loria to consider if I still believe in the tryker people, or I should leave them all to the kitins. The kitins after all, do not care if trykers are kami or karavan.


Watryk
Band of the Hawks

OOC:
Yeah, I got a slight grudge against AA mostly for words without the courage to put actions behind em. But what they started led to consequences I have to live whit (like a mostly empty guildchat). Also by being in a guild that received a war declaration from them, I can say things more freely After all what more can they do to me

[ghyselsj]

"Do not go into the Prime Roots." Where's the choice there?

OOC: why does every single Kami quote this when a topic about Kami vs Kara pops up? Get your facts straight: the Commandment says to never venture deep into the Prime Roots to try to find the Dragon. The regions we have access to are thus clearly not the deep Roots, as people have been all over them and have yet to find the Dragon. Ergo: the PR regions available ingame are accessible to the Karavan.