Ryzom

Hello all,
I am known as Shunafyr in game and i specialize in Autolauncher.
My opinion ranged is not fine as it is, some changes needed.
The biggest problems is the time and cost to make it working at the moment. Now pistol/rifle and auto/launchers are to be put in different categories as they are played differently.

I gather about 1,000 mats +/- 10% per dedicated hour in game digging. That makes about 500 auto ammos or 250 launchers ammo. Bulks? Total is worth 2,500 for auto and 3,750. A potential usage would be to reserve a packer for made ammo and others to hold mats. In a 3 packers scenario, that would amount to a holding power 2,000 mats and about 100 autolaunchers mats at a time increasing as mats are being used up. In my experience, ill approximate and say that about 10 ammos are needed to kill something of the same level, although the speed is slow (U can be killed 2 or 3 times in the time it takes you to kill one). Assuming that one can deal with the interface, you can transfer ammo in your bag as need while running around and aiming as necessary.

Now all this to show that the biggest problem with this is mobility and availabity. If I need to hunt, i have to prepare several hours before hand first. Then I cant hunt anywhere that i cant bring my packer to. And there is travel time. PVP fights? How do i bring my ammos to the locations? CAn i gather enough ammo/firepower to last an entire event?

These issues are what makes ranged not fun. For example during the events in AoD, I couldnt have more than 64 autolaunchers ammos per transport in there. Too much time is also lost in reloading, transfering ammos.

I infortunately have to keep this short, but in the end what i think is need at least for launchers type is a solution to the mobility and availability problem. Contrarely to other craft items, ammos are something that would be in great demands all the time. One of my suggestion would be to have SPECIAL AMMO HOLDING OBJECTS (ammunition pack), that are easily transferable and kind of like packers. This ease can be offset in the actual time it takes to reload the gun during fight.
One other big problem is the targetting system. I think we need to be able have multiple targets (using SHIFT and CTRL keys), we also need to be able to switch between ennemy targets and friendly targets in a scrolling fashion.

The other improvements needed are like some suggested increase in critical hit probability and addition of effects. The effects i am thinking about could parralelle the magic and melee effect, but in the realm of ranged: burning, poisoining (like bleed), wind (slows down , blind), electric (stunning), etc...

That is all i can say for today, but feel free to contact me in game for more discussion involving ranged tactics and strategies.

Shunafyr
Atys Paladin

something that has been mentioned in the past but not on this thread is that auto and launchers are seige weapons - they aren't designed for everyday hunting. Can be used happily in op's as there is access to gh, and from towns for invasions. *cough* been a while dev's

that said even used in those circumstances the bulk is a pain in the ass. maybe having a new type of packer would be good, a super strong mek that can carry lots of ammo (and only ammo) for us -)

rushin wrote:something that has been mentioned in the past but not on this thread is that auto and launchers are seige weapons - they aren't designed for everyday hunting. Can be used happily in op's as there is access to gh, and from towns for invasions. *cough* been a while dev's

I am not sure about reservation as a siege weapon only. Guild Hall is not accessible to everyone. Also i do not agree with the way everyday hunting is set up in Atys, it is not really a fun way to me just grindind. Hunting should be more involved, maybe even quest like, adventure like. I really dont like the pull and mob tactic. People who have seen me will see that i am a fan of aggroing many mobs at a time: autolaunchers and launchers are the perfect fit for that role. Rifles and pistols are the only weapons u cant use to fight more than one mob at a time.

OK guys just to let you know I'll give this thread a couple more days to get as much feedback as possible, then I'll collate it all and pass it on.

Thanks

Souls

ooo!! /tar Soul /cheer

rushin wrote:something that has been mentioned in the past but not on this thread is that auto and launchers are seige weapons - they aren't designed for everyday hunting.

Which is true, but one still needs to hunt with them to gain levels past 151. I think this needs to be accounted for somehow.

I like the idea of ammo-holding items. Of course, this adds the programming issue of containers in inventory. Perhaps an item you have to craft in the appropriate (rifle/pistol/launcher/autolauncher) skill tree, with basic, mq and hq versions. Placing it in inventory would reduce the weight and bulk of the appropriate ammo type by, say, 40, 50, or 60% depending on grade, and works for ammo whose level is equal or lower than the item.

In response to Shunafyr, I'd like to see the bleed/ignore armor/slow effects added. They already exist in the fight skillset, so I'm going to SWAG* they'd be easier to add to range. Also, perhaps add elemental damage to elemental gun patterns, based on the damage stat of the weapon. I've been shot many a time by NPC weapons that do elem on top of their physical, so there is precedent for this. Not to mention, it gives a reason to spend 100 craft points beyond the "oooh, pretty" effect

That, and allow more variety in ammo effect by activating the range/speed mods on ammo. Snipers could make good use of max damage/range, low speed ammo, and close in fighting would be a good spot for damage/speed with cruddy range. If you're looking to disrupt casters, range/speed with low damage would be the thing to do. Well, unless you're using sup mats, and have it all.

As far as the prep time, I'm thinking we're stuck with it. But, if range was more effective, the time spent would be more worth it, yes? It is a pain in the butt at times, but in all honesty, if it keeps EVERYDAMNBODY from doing it, I don't have a problem with it.

*stupid, wild-ass guess

To re-iterate launchers and autolaunchers are not currently siege weapons, and dont think they should be design to be. Plus they can be good defense weapons too. A siege weapon, i associate with bringing defenses, building down and they make outrageous damage. Magic is a better siege weapon than those so-called siege weapon at the moment. I think if we wanted to implemented the siege weapon effect, there could be a special stanza or ammo type that enable dealing enormous damage but in some limited fashions. For example, the launcher could cause a toxic gas or explosion similar to the digging experience.

One of the ideas was to add stanzas that gives more control on the range,speed, area of effect and even time...hmmm that does sound a lot like magic... Then it would make sense given that guns would be the technology counterpart.

Another idea worth mentionning that especially important is homin running speed. Many people have suggested that an advantage of ranged is being able to run while shooting. This is only an advantage in few select occurences. The truth is that this really work on slow and poor constitution mobs. Most of the mobs are too fast for the homin to use this strategy effectively.

If instead of the hit rate consuming a lot of hp and stam, have the running speed use some stamina too. So for example, a pistol is fast by default but short range. So the pistol user can try the hit and run tactic, using burst speed increase to try to get away from danger. However, this ability is limited to his available stamina. This may not work, but it might give idea for a better implementation.

Also, against a mage rifle and pistols do not have a range advantage and the ranger will be dead in 2 nukes most likely.
To my experience, i havent been able successfuly disturb mages with my rifle so far.

So if a ranged redesign should occurs this thing should probably bet put in the list:

Pistol -- Fast, disruptive, very light, easy to use(ready doesnt use too much credit), small damage, short range

Rifle -- Medium speed, Long range, Called shot, medium damage

Auto-launchers -- Medium speed, medium range, bleed type effect, spray and proximity effects, medium to heavy damage ( I really like the idea of the fyros auto-launchers spraying fire and burning ennemies : ) )

Launchers -- Slow speed, Long range, bomb effect, lasting field damage effect.

All guns should have 2 attacks type, a normal and a speciality type, with different ammo types also varying in size. That is put a minimum and maximum ammo size limit on gun types. So guns can have different sizes ammo with bigger sizes having more damage and the launcher being the one that can shoot the highest ammo type. This way creating siege type ammo will require a bit of time and maybe even require rare mats. This reduce the guns to effect capability instead giving more control on the speed/damage trade-off.

The game balance will still be an issue. However as it stand, meleer should still be hard to knock down, mage still able to kill fairly quickly. The ranger comes in the middle using evasive tactics but having the possibility to be quite deadly if they play the right strategy and prepare accordingly. Multi-classing will still be an issue.

That was me Shunafyr dreaming again...

Good ideas posted above. Only change I would make is that Rifles have the longest range.

-Kash-

make it a proper skill tree, ditch the melee nonsense, make it worth the effort, make it much faster, make it have a few "interesting" things later on in the skill,

not played that many mmorpgogrep(gerogfharubbishgames) but everyone has a use gun kill stuff vaiable option but then again not many have the zapp stuff skill so i guess it dont matter...

also the camera auto spinning to your target is quite annoying when skillfully trying to run away....ps. how does ranged fit into the cliffing debate? (no one cases cos its not used?)

One really basic idea (in other words, easily implemented by the devs), i think, is increase the overall ranged damage with something like 30%. This skill will have some sort of balance then. On 1 hand, fairly high damage, and on the counterweight, time consuming, considering foraging/crafting.

Thatll make it a rewarding way of life on Atys, not some fanatics branche.