Ryzom

b00ster1 wrote:Don't you think, there is "folk" complaining about mages comparing not only with melee, but with enviroment.
Dont you think, this folk, wanting nerf mages - have more than 1-2 250 skills/branches in Melee and also in Magic (or do you expect to see here mages posting "Yes, nerf me pls"? )

I wouldnt expect any lvl 100 pure Mages calling for themselves to be nerfed no ,maxed out and with the health of a maxed out Melee may well be a different case...

b00ster1 wrote:Healing for 6.950-7.000 you think is ok? When max HP is 4.750 in Q250 Jewels/armour at lvl 250 melee

Alot of us aren't talking about Max healing, we are speaking about healing before level 100. Although with the case of high level healing, that serves a valuable purpose too. It alows the healer to get the tank back in the fight after the tank has been killed by a mob.

In the post before your last, I agree with you (if I was able to read it correctly) that the max absorption needs to be increased for HA (although ANY help to MA would be good too). However, I believe you proved my point on Melees needing to ask for more power, instead of this strange compulsion to try to fix everything with a nerf. In your example, you listed the Great Cuttlers, a level 251 mob. I do not know for fact, but can a level 250 melee hit for 1200, even with a supreme 2 handed weapon? Without using stamina? The mob can, and it's "weapons" are only of fine quality.

OOC:

I should add, I don't give a damn about any impact changes or lack therof may have on PVP.

PVP can go suck a yubo for all I care.

Semi-OOC:

we are speaking about healing before level 100

I speaking about balance at hi-lvls, where we all are going and then playing most time using higher lvls, because way to 100 is short (but also i don't said - it don't need changes in one or another side, but as stated above, i speaking about hilvl's "problems").
(Can't discuss about healing/melee below 100, because "it was done" before patch 1, but Elemental Magic 0->100 [...] X - > Y [...] 245-250 lvl'ed solo and without troubles (only boring regen) using q160 choice amp, q130 jewels and q110-q130 LA. Leveled elem, cuz team was not always available, because of "Game recently released - low server population" and "Melee was/is impossible to use solo (efficient/at some steps/etc)")

It alows the healer to get the tank back in the fight after the tank has been killed by a mob

It allows the healer to get the tank back and with 4k+ HP (sometimes with full)...
Even someone posted on forums "Jumping HP bar" (100%->20%->dead->80%->10%...)was done by Nevrax for purpose (and i believe it, reading notes like "Melee duels are too long"), i can't agree it is "right way", because like said above - fight, IMO, should be longer and involving strategy, and action used should be not limited only by conterpart.

but can a level 250 melee hit for 1200, even with a supreme 2 handed weapon? Without using stamina? The mob can, and it's "weapons" are only of fine quality.

G.If find comparision Mob<->Player unabsorbed damage - a little strange, but well:
Cuttler lvl 251 can hit 1151
Melee lvl 250 can hit 1104 (using HP and Stamina), and with weapons grade below supreme.

Atm (Armour: PF: 51%/Max vs = 590) (average excelent armour with max (for Exc) PF and Max vs. No meaning at all to use supreme with 55% PF, because of 'Max vs' limit - 600)
Cuttler hit you 1151 - ['PF' <-> 'Max vs'] = 564 (587 absorbed by armour)
You hit Cuttler without stamina for 552 max.
Even if damage player/cuttler is comparable - HP amount isn't (Great Cuttlers HP is more than 6k, Great Jugulas more than 8k. Note: i Picked "easiest" hilvl mobs, many have much more HP).
So 30% player killing itself using HP credits (still not enough for using max stanzas with Stamina credits), and or mob die in next ~8-10 secs, or you're dead.


If devs make PF 75%/Max vs 900
Cuttler hit you 1151 - ['PF' <-> 'Max vs'] = 288 (863 absorbed by armour)
So you can at least "tank" for 15-17 mobs hits, dont kill yourself/dont burn all stamina using Max HP/Stamina credits, because of using "Attack after Parry/Dodge/Crit.Hit/Feint"

but can a level 250 melee hit for 1200? [....] The mob can [..]

Can mob nuke you from 51-52m distance for 3k? Can't. Elem can...
2/3 nukes from max distance and mob die at half way to you/near you without damaging you.

b00ster1, you forgot a little tidbit: shields
currently they give you a defense+ of ~20%-25% and this is for ALL body parts, not too sure about the max vs. values tho (oh, and don't forget the rather high parry bonus )

(oh, and don't forget the rather high parry bonus

Don't forget about "+ 50" Penalty (Shield) = "+ 25%" credits (HP/Stam) used.
"- Dmg", "+ Hitrate" = "+ ~30%" credits (HP/Stam) used and less "damage/min"
Actually i speaked about 2h, but 1h,even with higher parry - have less chances against hilvl mobs, because of "kill yourself" (creeeedits usage), fight ere too quick (posted above), "no time" to compensate credits usage with "After Parry" credit, cuz or you kill fast or you die fast. No other way atm.

philu wrote:Yes but it isn't the nukers that are getting nerfed, it's the healers. And, as a consequence, the fighters will feel the effect too.

Yes they're increasing the cost of double spells but that wont nerf nukers as much as reducing heal life power will nerf healers.

If you think elementalists are over powered, nerf THEM. Leave me alone! Reduce the power or increase the cost of THEIR spells not mine. They're actually giving elem a boost by doubling AoE power.

Healers should not heal more than elementlists can dish out damage. This, in effect means, that the most a healer should heal is 1500 hp (at level 250, without amps), or 3000 hp (with x/100 power amps).

b00ster1 wrote:Healing for 6.950-7.000 you think is ok? When max HP is 4.750 in Q250 Jewels/armour at lvl 250 melee

I agree that it is dumb that they can heal more than it's possible to have, but that's just another example of Nevrax's poor coding. Doesn't make it right to punish all healers just because the fighters are whining.

Oh and elems can do a lot more than 1500 dmg.

Yes reduce the power of the high level heal spells so that it isn't possible to heal more than the max possible HP but don't just do a blanket nerf of every other healer.

b00ster1 wrote:Don't forget about "+ 50" Penalty (Shield) = "+ 25%" credits (HP/Stam) used.
"- Dmg", "+ Hitrate" = "+ ~30%" credits (HP/Stam) used and less "damage/min"
Actually i speaked about 2h, but 1h,even with higher parry - have less chances against hilvl mobs, because of "kill yourself" (creeeedits usage), fight ere too quick (posted above), "no time" to compensate credits usage with "After Parry" credit, cuz or you kill fast or you die fast. No other way atm.

in your example the melee would have a dmg absorption of 100% (75%+25%) which would probably be capped at 95% and a raw absorb of 1100(900+200). since the % limit woudl be lower than the max vs. the damage that the melee would have to take would be 5% of 1141, which is is 57.55. that means that the melee doesn't need to burn himself out on stam and can take his time.

Looks like everyone plays the game different. I still hope for a ress timer, but i am the only one. I am quite sure this single feature would replace every "problem" that calls for chages

Probably this "nerf" should not be linear. It should inrease with the level. I dont care if a 250 healer drops 7k or 3.5k HP. But i do care if i drop 1.8k or 0.9k HP. I have no intention to be a 250 healer. Same goes for elemental magery. Leveling heal and melee/magery is a silly thing in this game for me. I dont mind if others want to do this. I dont want to, cause i am feeling fine at lvl 170 on heal and ele.

If the changes are perfectly balanced i might be ok. If the game wants me again to grind i am not ok.