Ryzom

vinnyq wrote:but but .. dappers dap..
oh wut the heck.
PVP! WOOT! PVP!
*runs around*

Yes, good point, good point.. In fact I think the best way to make a nice economy and to find durable sinks for dappers is to... foster and enable faction based PvP (from now on I can just talk about PvP see? smart and subtle!!)

Obviously we need some way to attack other players using dappers, and not just by paying 50 million for a pike.

make a series of dapper credit bricks, or a ranged weopon that consumes dappers.. "I just hit him with a million dappers of damage "

sap crystals just dont use enough.

One thing though, regardless of how serious you take this topic... always make it the users choice. DO NOT introduce pvp thievery/looting/pickpocketry whatever..

Anyone remember back when the RPer's were the most evil players on the server, for asking to be paid for rezzes ??

kashius wrote:It's like if you go into a construction zone that has warning signs in clear view of the entrances. It says, "Caution, construction in 50ft...Falling Debris Zone" or something. It tells you where the danger is and what it is. Would you enter completely unprepared (Hard Hat/Goggles etc...)? Would you enter and not be careful where you stepped/what was behind around you? Would you not want other more experienced people/professionals there to help you stay safe (if you're not even a worker there)?

You are warned of the danger in PvP zone. Don't go in unprepared. Be careful of yourself/suroundings. Might need to be with people who can HELP ensure you're safety. In both examples, even with all precautions taken, you can still get hurt. Once you've done all in your power to lessen the chance for yourself to be harmed...then and only then can you place blame on someone else.

Not a good analogy to a PvP zone. The warning signs warn you about the chance that debris might come falling down by accident. People who attack you in a PvP zone don't do it by accident. For it to be a good RL analogy to a PvP zone, the sign would have to read: "Caution, construction in 50ft... our construction workers are allowed to purposely throw debris at anyone entering this site."

If I go into a PvP zone unprepared and careless and someone kills me, that person is solely responsible for his decision to attack me. I'm responsible for allowing myself to be attacked, I'm responsible for being such an easy target, but he's still responsible for attacking me. Whether his actions are wrong is another debate, but he is definitely responsible for them.

asaseth wrote:Do you have any idea how rair it is that all of Infinity is together in one spot? The stink would be like the goo damage, presumably, and there would just be a chain of healers, one keeping the next in line up, and so on, untill all but the aflicted person would be clear. And if they realy were PKers, they would hunt down those that did that to them.


Noh
Zorai
Infinity

Ummmm im FOR PvP (Controlled and/or with a reason and against mindless/random Pk'ing -which i dont think happens atm) and nowhere did i mention Infinity , twas a joke but if its hitting too close to home then maybe you should look at changing your actions ?

magick1 wrote: To my surprise none welcomed that as something positive (except other filthy rich homins ) some where down right hostile, and noone parcitipated in 2a/2b type of exchange.
Maybe I had to high hopes of others to help me for a change, in any case I am back to accepting dappers for services rendered.

Was this before or after we spoke, Lien?

As you might know, I am grinding light armor at the moment and I have a deal with a homin I will give her a ql190 light armor hp or focus boost for every 150 fibers or resins she brings me. I am not sure what she does with the 10+ dresses I made her so far, but maybe you want an agreement like that too?

Soon my grind will be over and then it will no longer be: every mat I can get, but I will be looking for specific stuff for armors. We will be talking again then I think.

About dapper sinks. I know a zillion...
- a small fee for buying items back from the stores
- very expensive tickets to places like NPC camps you are friends with.
- more pet options.
- GH thingies like multiple GH's in multiple towns linked by the doors that go no-where now.
- A form of Jena's Oral Pleasure that will make me loose dp with any skill as if the lvl was the same as my highest skill. (My heal is 131, Lakedigging 218, dp is hard to loose after a teamwhipe during a hunt).
- Fireworks! Special spells to be loaded unto an item. Cant be saploaded. Or items that can be equipped, and have 10 spells on them. Make the spells fun to use.
- NPC mats @ql150...... Now *that* I would loose all my dappers on.

Any society has only a finite amount of cash, if not then you get a run away ecomony like we have now.

Of course this doesn't help fix somethings thats already broke, but at least it's my poor attempt of helping get this thread back on topic.

Getting back to subject, the Atysian economy. I don't know if it is terribly complicated or hard to manage, but I think the economy in Ryzom is broken, at least not sure it it is working as intended.

Some random thoughts:

* Unlimited supply + unrealistic demand: the game provides unlimited supplies, and this is at the core of the game. One player can kill / harvest etc without pause and this is a source of income, regardless of the actual demand. If one player can get benefit (in dappers, by selling to NPC) regardless of demand, then something is broken. One first conclusion, pretty obvious: players that play more hours a day are -if they chose to- richer. Unlimited supply: mobs spawn, sources still pop, of course, this is required to 'play' and advance xp-wise.

Unrealistic demand: there is no rate limiting function that limits the amount of dapper I can earn, NPCs will buy eveything I can get from the unlimited supply. It can be the crappiest q250 amp I can make, that fellow is going to buy it. I can craft hundreds of earrings, he will eat them. Conclusion: as long as I can earn more money by interacting with the system / NPCs than with other players, by using the fact that there are unlimited supplies, we get a run away economy (in dappers). If a client asks me for a relatively low quality item, e.g. a q180 amplifier. Sometimes the time that it takes to craft it I could use it simply selling dug mats to the NPC and my benefit (dappers only) would be higher. If we add a max rate that a player can earn money from the game, and trading with players allows me to make more money then I have a reason to trade with him, since there are no unlimited supplies and unrealistic demand, I will eventually be forced to trade with him to get dappers.


Would limiting the rate that NPC merchants buy things (or with diminishing prices), reflecting that the demand for the services we provide has a limit, be a solution to this? (how many earrings does Mianio Monei need?, btw)

What if every single item had to be bought by a player, and the rate at which players can 'gather' dappers was controlled/limited? e.g. I can only get a max of 100k dappers from NPCs a day. The rest of my money I have to earn it from other players. In this sense, AFAIK, real currency in Ryzom are supreme mats, supreme gear, etc. Due to those mats having a more tight rate function.(for example, if supreme ambers were the currency, there is a 72 per node / season, etc. rate limiting function) a player cannot stock an unlimited number of supreme oath bark even if he plays 24h/day.


Whatever money sinks they add to the game, there will (apparently) be a difference in wealth: poor players and rich players, being the later usually harvesters and crafters. Why? there is nothing seriously worth buying for harvesters. No picks, nothing, clearly, there is little incentive for them to sell mats. Pure crafters are very rare in this game. A high level crafter needs to feed himself, no need to spend dappers mostly. Some mats can't even be bought, due to the fact that it is not easy for hunters to gather them (eyes, skins, etc). In summary: diggers dig mainly for themselves and crafters feed themselves. (YEs, they can buy other mats too... luckily for hunters).

* Setting prices for gear. Well, another point: what's the right price? some answer: the price that a client is willing to pay. Does this mean that for the same piece of equipment I have to change prices according to my customer?


Well, just b@w, and posting a bit, thoughts?

Just another bunch of random thoughts

Diggers can generate a constant income (more so at higher levels), and most diggers as far as I know craft as well.
An easy dapper sink is to have items made from NPC mats over q100 have no (resell) value.
Or even better just pay for craft levels (secondaly tree only up to your primary? So if primary is jewelry diadem, you can't buy earring up to higher than that).
That way you have in a sense bought the mats and used it to craft.
I imagine that there should be a limit of some kind, bought levels raises over a periode of time, levels bought per day are limited and/or bought levels don't give skill points, to name some limits.

And while I am still wishing for stuff, how about a kami teddybear?

Limiting what npc’s buy is a bit of a double edged sword. On one hand it would help reign in inflation and balance the wealth between diggers and everyone else, but the implementation would be tricky to say the least.. lets take an example.

Every town is allocated a quota of all items ingame. so capitals will buy and sell a higher number than the outlying towns. Hawkers would also be included in this. This quota would be valid for a set time slice, say 24 hours

Merchants will accept for purchase items until the quota is reached. At this point there are a couple of options, they might continue to buy another half quota but at half price, or they stop buying period.

At the end of each time slice the quota is reset, and dynamically adjusted within certain min/max restraints, so the market would have peaks and slumps. items sold to npc's in small quantities would be more in demand so the next quota would be higher, and those sold in abundance would be lower.

Mats sold to merchants could affect the NPC items that are sold, so if a lot of choice big shell was sold there might be a few good npc swords available the next day.

There are about a million other things that could be done with the economy to make it interesting more three dimensional, but lets face it, its unlikely to be a priority any time soon.

The biggest problem with the above idea is that a few diggers would arrive back at town, grind for 10 mins and use up the entire quota.

Picking up on Liens point of bartering some kind of ingame barter house would be fairly simple to code i reckon. A seller heads to the clerk and puts a shiny sword up for exchange and specifies they want xxx fine bark, yyy excellent hash and a kami teddy in exchange. they leave the item there as in a normal merchant. buyers can browse the items and hand over the required items to complete the exchange at which point seller gets notification and goes to collect their mats.

sorry to stay on topic, err… come 2 r00t5 n00b I pwn u? is that what I am supposed to write?

How about limiting resale to max 500%?