To all the naysayers, as well as fans of this genre, PLEASE READ THIS POST! Thanks!

[raynes]

I can't even believe you said that Raynes It's wrong on so many levels, to the point where it's totally irrelevant. MMO and OS are worlds apart, MS dev team and Nevrax are worlds apart, where's the link that this comment was based on?

What is the Saga of Ryzom? It's software.
What is an OS? It's software.

Just because it's a different type of software doesn't mean it shouldn't be treated on the same level nor should expectations be any lower? Developers of this type of software have used it's open ended nature as an excuse for behaviors that in any other area of software development would be unacceptable. Incomplete features, bugs, sloppy code, code that just doesn't work all have become common place. This should not be the case.

Everyone keeps saying that Nevrax isn't a Blizzard or a Sony. Well they aren't some college student in a dorm somewhere either. Nor is Ryzom a peice of software with $100 in development behind it. Ryzom is a major commercial peice of software. The development budget for such software is in the millions.

[borg9]

What is the Saga of Ryzom? It's software.
What is an OS? It's software.

Just because it's a different type of software doesn't mean it shouldn't be treated on the same level nor should expectations be any lower? Developers of this type of software have used it's open ended nature as an excuse for behaviors that in any other area of software development would be unacceptable. Incomplete features, bugs, sloppy code, code that just doesn't work all have become common place. This should not be the case.

Everyone keeps saying that Nevrax isn't a Blizzard or a Sony. Well they aren't some college student in a dorm somewhere either. Nor is Ryzom a peice of software with $100 in development behind it. Ryzom is a major commercial peice of software. The development budget for such software is in the millions.

It works for Microsoft .... why can't Nervax do the same.

Tell me a microsoft product that does everything thats on the box?

[dazman76]

What is the Saga of Ryzom? It's software.
What is an OS? It's software.

Generalisation, which weakens an argument. Yep, Notepad is also a piece of software. So was Powerbuilder v6.0 by Powersoft, it cost £3500 per license, and although the final product did it's job well, the development environment was buggy as hell, and regularly crashed, messing up the entire project file and requiring a 1-hour plus complete rebuild of a project. V5 was even worse. So what did Powersoft say when people hassled them?

"Version 7 will be along in around 12 months time, with performance enhancements, more stability, and lovely big smiles".

V7 was yet another, steaming pile of... erm... bad software.

I see your arguments Raynes, and I see your need to complain about Ryzom. Just don't do it too much eh? The Devs aren't rushing to fix the stuff you have a problem with, they're working through their priority list just as they were before. Don't let your current feelings sour you towards Ryzom or the Devs - if you pass that point, you'll never return, and Ryzom will have lost a valuable player.

[raynes]

It works for Microsoft .... why can't Nervax do the same.

Tell me a microsoft product that does everything thats on the box?

I think the better question is to tell me which ones don't do what they say on the box. The fact is they do what they say they are going to do.

[zumwalt]

Tell me a microsoft product that does everything thats on the box?

*scratches his head*
Word, its a word processor, and does everything the box mentions it does, and actually does more.

Excel, does everything advertised and more.
Powerpoint, does everything advertised and more.
Visual Studio products, does everything advertised and more.
Anti Spam Software, does everything advertised and more.
OS's,does everything advertised and more.

*scraches head some more*
Server family of products, does everything advertised and more.
Come to think of it, Microsoft is the world leader on many levels, and we all expect there software to be as advertised, well, come to think of it, it has to be, if it wasn't there would be so many lawsuits, it would bankrupt there company.

Lets put it in a different light, Microsoft outsourced to have a few games created AND an MMO, all of them, do what there box and manual advertise from the shelf.

Here is the major difference, Ryzom is made by a French company that is not held to the same software compliance laws that Microsoft is held to (or practically all the USA software development firms are held to) simply because from my understanding, French law does not take into consideration Bait and Switch laws, where as USA does.

As pointed out before, Ryzom falls under French law, and they expressly remove themself from all other international laws.

As players we choose to continue to play the game, even when we know its broken, missing core elements, and the company doesn't give regard to false advertisement laws.

We play anyway.

As described by Raynes earlier in this discussion thread, Nevrax advertises that you can obtain outposts in the game, this is bait, outposts will be implimented in the near future, but was not there since day 1, there's the switch.

Bait = You can do this that or the other in our game if you buy it.
Switch = Oooops, sorry, its not in the game yet, so you can't actually do this that or the other in our game until we allow the content to be added.

This is illegal in America, but probably not in France.

So we, the players, tolerate this, are patient in waiting for this feature to come to life, to see how it changes the game life.

I could go on with the list of items that were supposed to be in the game according to the box but are not in there yet, but the rules don't apply to them as it would an American software programming company.

Should we as players hold them in a higher standard than there used to because were used to the higher standard, sure, we can, but there is absolutly nothing we can do about it if they don't meet those standards short of canceling our accounts and finding something else to do with our time.

[memiki]

I so agree with many of the posts here. Some not as much as others.

I was new to any gaming until I became a beta tester for URU in July 2003. One of the older players. I then became addicted to gaming, much to my husbands fear.

after URU died, cried for about a week. You have to have been in URU to understand. The idea to play with people from all over the world. I now have friends around the globe. If nothing else I have to thank URU for that.

Then beta came out for Saga of Ryzom, which I was kind of dragged into, tried once said no not my kind of game, that was beta 2, well then I was talked into trying again at the end of beta 2 and moved into beta 3 and then promptly got addicted. and have been since.

I guess cause I am a newer gamer, I don't understand. I have not been any game that didn't have problems. Actually haven't done much in my life that didn't have problems. I do understand you are paying for something and you want what the box says. But I honestly believe that they are trying.

I hate to think of Ryzom taking URU's path. I hate to think of being in the end of something I love. It is not that I don't play anything else, I am in SWG, I still can't walk in it., EQ2 it is a good thing to play when servers are down. . I was in "Tale of the Desert" beta.

I know there must be a point to my post but I have now lost all concept of what it was. People that know me will understand that.

Just wanted to throw in my two cents in here and say I particularly agree with the orginal poster. but also with some of the additional ones.

I guess the important thing is to enjoy your self, it is a game. I am sure it will get better and I am sure more content is on its way. However slow it is I will be here to see it. Barring Real life after all I am old, so they better hurry while I can still see the screen.

Have a wonderful day everyone and see you in game. Look me up. I am the same in every game I play. can't handle to many names, have trouble with my own name sometimes.

[raynes]

Should we as players hold them in a higher standard than there used to because were used to the higher standard, sure, we can, but there is absolutly nothing we can do about it if they don't meet those standards short of canceling our accounts and finding something else to do with our time.

Sure there is. We can come to the boards and complain.

[lyrah68]

And WHAT raid engine??? not in game either. Other than that addition...AMEN Brother Raynes.

Maybe if they would get off their butts and fix that same stuff that has been broken (or missing) since launch we wouldn't moan about it anymore. And before you say "you would just find something else to moan about", that's hardly true. As Zumwalt said in another post all we want is what was on the box (and in the manual). The box we purchased mid September 2004. Until we get what we paid for (that's right we paid for the software) we have every right to complain as much as we want.

Think of it this way. You go to the store and buy a brand new version of Windows. You install it and all that appears is a command prompt. You call Microsoft and they explain to you that the graphical interface is still under development and they will ship it to you when it's ready. Are you going to tell me that you wouldn't complain?


And just so we are clear, I just pulled this off of amazon.com today (I added the numbers):

1# Explore the world of Atys - uncovering the past while learning about the mysterious Prime Roots
2# New Modular Action System -- from a set of pre-defined Actions, you can customize your own spells, attack patterns and crafting skills
3# The RAID engine lets dozens of creatures launch offensives at the same time, challenging your players in epic battles
4# Band together with other players as a guild, then take on missions to earn outposts and your own land
5# Battle native tribes, the invading Kitin or the contamination of the Goo - your choices will decide the fate of entire regions

Of the 5 things that are advertised only #2 and 3 have been fully implemented in the game.

1) There is no way to uncover the past or learn about the Prime Roots in game.
4) There are no missions for guilds nor are their outposts in the game.
5) You can not fight the goo.

[splatula]

Windows XP Professional The most secure and reliable operating system to date.

LOL

Please, when XP came out it advertised lots of things, some worked, some were broken for quite some time before being patched. All software has bugs to a certain extent. Windows Firewall was not complete until SP2, not to mention the terrible wireless connectivity before that point.

1) There is no way to uncover the past or learn about the Prime Roots in game.

The Encyclopedia perhaps???? I haven't grabbed any PR missions yet, but I am sure there must be some encyclopedia missions for the PR somewhere.

4) There are no missions for guilds nor are their outposts in the game.

I look at the whole lack of outposts so far as part of the storyline we've been fed. We are slowly rebuilding our decimated societies, so first we are repopulating, grouping together for protection and comeraderie. Learning what sources and creatures are where during what seasons. I figure we'll start building stuff soon, our engineers need to get cracking for sure, but I can wait a little while.

5) You can not fight the goo.

You can't? I am pretty sure I have seen goo infected creatures, and even harvested some goo. Has anyone bothered to try harvesting wicked amounts of goo from goo regions? Would the kami tolerance still go down if we tried to strip a region of it's goo? It would be neat if harvesting goo increased the kami tolerance.

The RAID engine is what Ryzom uses to control creatures Lyrah, you see it every time there is a creature. It is capable of huge attacks, like an invasion, or if you happen to get close to clopper hill for that matter.

I don't expect to see any epic battles until we have an epic amount of players. People mostly complain when there is an invasion these days, wah it's too hard... I keep killin' them but they come back! At least Melinoe and a couple other guilds jumped in to help get rid of the invasions in all the lands last time. Poor Trykers and Zorais.

[borguk]

From this post now 5 pages long I see the backlash is starting.

Backlash ? Yes the failure to deliver on time that Ryzom is suffering from, for what ever reason. The community rep has been honest and to the point, so guys its not like we dont know whats going on.

Outposts are running late, this major piece of content is not here but will be soon. Im taking a break from Ryzom becuase after 6 months the game had run out of things for me to do and I was fed up with just grinding, ive openly said I will spend more time ingame when outposts are released.

The game has some good points and for that reason my sub stays.

1. Freedom - As the original poster says, your not lead by the nose like WoW (a game I also play and very different imo to Ryzom). You can do what you like and when you like. This game is about the players and will be driven by them.

2. Community reps and GMs - after PS and now WoW, the guys here at Ryzom just c**p all over the competition. For this alone I would sub to Ryzom, and any new guy reading this, anytime your stuck just contact your local GM and you will see what Im talking about.

3. Potential - this game is designed to be ongoing and the player base will contribute largely in what is to come, it literally is what you make it. Alot of the best events Ive been to have been run by players for players. I would say at this point though that Nevrax need to pull their finger out and get outposts in asap (my main gripe).

Id like to see the release date for outposts, anyone know it ?