Ryzom

jagroq wrote:To both the Kami and the Karavan the Goo is a threat that by far eclipses any worries they have about each other.

First off, that is wrong. If you read the Flanagan Files you will find that the destabilizing factors for the Karavan have a different emphasis than those of the Kami in the Mara Fragments.

Flanagan Files: Destabilizing Factors wrote:- Kamis represent serious rivals. Not only do they rally many homins to their cause to the detriment of the Karavan, but they are also resistant to the latter's technology. The Kamis also prevent them from setting up base camps on Atys.
- The Goo is a blight on the face of the planet and threatens to weaken natural resources.
- Elias Tryton, who first appeared during the darkest hours of the Kitin invasion, could well turn many homins away from the Jena faith.
- Homin curiosity about the past. This leads many homins to doubt the pillars of the Karavan and was the reason behind major disasters, such as the fire of Coriolis and the war against the kitins.

Mara Fragments: Destabilizing Factors wrote:- The Goo represents the greatest threat for the Kamis. The Goo is a cancer that nibbles away at the planet, against which the Kamis are powerless.
- The Karavan represents a minor menace for them. The magnetic fields that their technology and machinery emit perturb plant life. Furthermore, years of Karavan gathering resources thanks to links with homins is beginning to wear down the planet's natural reserves.
- Overexploitation of natural vegetal plant resources will jeopardize the balance of the planet.

I bolded the sections of interest. The Goo is not a large threat to the Karavan, it only has the potential to disrupt the quality and supply of Atys' natural resources. Even then, this is not a strong conviction (Which is evident based on their previous actions against the Zorai).

From the dated chronicalizations of the Zorai people. wrote:...Karavan tries to punish Zorais for fighting goo instead of gathering raw materials for them.

I will leave your "questions" which were directed at Raynes for him to answer. As to your other claim of being "pushed away" from ever becomming a Kami "sheep"... If the actions or thoughts of one homin can so guide your actions and thoughts, then you are already a sheep and do not possess the ability to appreciate the Kami for yourself in your own way. The Karavan would gladly welcome such a follower, I hope you can find peace with your apparant insecurity. Your "de facto" support for the Karavan has already built-up a fear (and consequently, hatred) of the Kami. Many homins had a choice, clearly you did not. For that, I pity you. There is still hope that you may judge your beliefs on their own merits, but it is unlikely with you being so far indoctrinated into the Karavan's brainwashing. No doubt, you will respond the above statements with indignation or resentment and will continue to stray from seeing the truth.

ackir wrote: I will leave your "questions" which were directed at Raynes for him to answer. As to your other claim of being "pushed away" from ever becomming a Kami "sheep"... If the actions or thoughts of one homin can so guide your actions and thoughts, then you are already a sheep and do not possess the ability to appreciate the Kami for yourself in your own way. The Karavan would gladly welcome such a follower, I hope you can find peace with your apparant insecurity. Your "de facto" support for the Karavan has already built-up a fear (and consequently, hatred) of the Kami. Many homins had a choice, clearly you did not. For that, I pity you. There is still hope that you may judge your beliefs on their own merits, but it is unlikely with you being so far indoctrinated into the Karavan's brainwashing. No doubt, you will respond the above statements with indignation or resentment and will continue to stray from seeing the truth.

I do apologize Ackir that I painted all followers of the Kami with the same brush. What I said earlier I did say in the heat of passion after recieving a direct threat on my life. I do understand that you have your beliefs and I have mine and there is no reason that they agree. I guess I just didn't apreciate having the olive brach I tried to offer shoved down me throat.

jagroq wrote:So now you are saying that you don't care what my beliefs are unless they match yours perfectly?! You don't hold any value in homid life unless it is in blind servitude to the kami?! Your mind has become so closed to original thought that you need to lash out at your perseved enemies because you fear that their very existance will poke a hole in the dream world you have constructed for yourself?!

You keep talking about leading me and others like me (those not fortunate enough to have your great wisdom about how the world works) towards the "light" that is the Kami, but your words here today have shown me what that light truely is. A burning fire that is set ignite all of Atys in war. While I am still to fuzzy on the Karavan's values or goals to follow them as blindly as you follow the Kami, I do thank you for bringing the Kami into perfect focus.

PS. That same lore you were quick to point to mentions something you forgot to consider. To both the Kami and the Karavan the Goo is a threat that by far eclipses any worries they have about each other. A few days ago I suggested that we put aside our diffrences and work together on that common goal. I still plan on fighting against the Goo and the Kitin threat but, I want it to be clear that with your help the Kami have lost any hope of converting me into one of their sheep and if any thing they and their followers have gained a new enemy.

Any Homin that does not serve the Kami is indeed my enemy. The way of the Kami is the only way. You have spent time helping the Karavan, that in my view is the worst crime above any.

I have to laugh at the part where you tell me its my fault that you won't be converted into a Kami follower. The fact is that you wouldn't of become one anyway. If you are helping the Karavan then you obviously have no regard for Atys. I personally get tired of people using me as an excuse why they won't join the Kami. The Kami wish to save Atys. They are its guardians. The only reason why anyone should follow the Kami is because of their love for Atys. Unlike the Karavan they do not want people to join them just because they like them or have a desire to follow them. They want people to join them to help perserve the planet. The very fact that you have said that you won't join because of me tells me that even if you were to join, it wouldn't be for the right reasons.

It's really that simple. Either you love the planet and want to protect it, in which case you would join the Kami. Or you wish to be a slave to the Karavan and help them destroy the planet.

I've been sitting back and watching for a short while too long. This debate is useless, those who support the Karavan, or even allow them to coexist with them, are not the kind of homins with our planet's best interest in mind. It is clear that these people are obviously the enemy, not because they've joined with the Karavan specifically, but more because they inherently, by either Karavan alignment or neutrality, are not concerned for the well being of our homes, and therefore represent the greatest threat to me.

*through an observers eyes*

Kami followers are mining the grounds with such enthusiasm, as to make the kami tolerance bar go down..

Karavan followers are hunting the kitin and the kinchers to remove them from the lands..

Kami would not mine knowing that mining would harm the planet, instead they would rely on merchants.

Karavan rely on merchants and production to further there cause to destroy the kitin..

*scratches head*

Kami punish the Kami for harvesting to much material..
Kami punish the Karavan for harvesting to much material..

I see a trend there..

Kami want there cake and eat it to.
Karavan just want to defend Atys from the Goo and Kitin..

*shrugs*

I'll stick to my production and let the kami and karavan eliminate each other in this bickering, makes more room for me on Atys.

zumwalt wrote:*through an observers eyes*

Kami followers are mining the grounds with such enthusiasm, as to make the kami tolerance bar go down..

Karavan followers are hunting the kitin and the kinchers to remove them from the lands..

Kami would not mine knowing that mining would harm the planet, instead they would rely on merchants.

Karavan rely on merchants and production to further there cause to destroy the kitin..

*scratches head*

Kami punish the Kami for harvesting to much material..
Kami punish the Karavan for harvesting to much material..

I see a trend there..

Kami want there cake and eat it to.
Karavan just want to defend Atys from the Goo and Kitin..

*shrugs*

I'll stick to my production and let the kami and karavan eliminate each other in this bickering, makes more room for me on Atys.

What open Kami supporter harvests to the point of angering the Kami? Everytime I see the Kami bar low there are always Matis in the area.

The Kami are not against harvesting or mining. In fact they encourage it. What they are against and what causes them to get angry is when people mine to the point of when resources are almost completely removed from the planet. If a homin is wise and harvests in moderation the Kami will be perfectly happy.

The Kami need to protect Atys from being over mined/harvested. If they didn't stop homins when resources are at a dangerious level, the planet would become a useless wasteland.

zumwalt...

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HE HE HE HEH HEH ha ha ha he he heh.

I hope you weren't being serious because that was too funny.

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jagroq wrote:I guess I just didn't apreciate having the olive brach I tried to offer shoved down me throat.

Yeah... I can see that... because saying that alienating "any homin" by following either the Kami or Karavan makes one worse than the kitin is an "olive branch". I guess I don't see it. Oh, by the way, olive branch is a symbol of peace where I come from, if it has a different meaning for you then I apologize.

jagroq wrote:To alienate either the Kami or the Karavan or for that matter any homin (not spouting religious retoric) would make ME the true enemy my people and all homin kind. And possibly even a worse threat than the kiten

Baaa, jagroq, baaa.

You don't see a Karavan or Kami title above my head.
I travel all the lands, modestly harvest what I need, not beyond my needs.
I defend all the lands from the Kitin, but avoid the termoil between the Kami and Karavan.

I observe both the Kami and Karavan aligned individuals who lack in knowledge of propper harvesting, blow them self up, or tear up a harvest.

I am also wittness to the greed of both sides, trying to harvest the lands until the Kami Brutes are agitated, then leave.

Sometimes, I believe these individuals do this just to reduce the time the lands can be harvested, but for no other reason.

This is my thoughts.

I am a dual harvestor / crafter, and craft items for all lands and homin, but am limited when I enter area's where desired resources are to be found, only to find that the kami tolerance is at an all time low, this in both Kami and Karavan lands.

Time is never on our side.