Ryzom

Pretty much, but I'd say that's anyone who decides such (in this case CP's) limitation wouldn't you?

Yeah, it's a philosophical point really. But it could affect the out-of-character reputation of Pegasus. I'm just urging CP to keep it in character, and respect those who don't like to role-play.

madnak wrote:From my understanding PF is meant to be a friendly haven for players of any kind. They're an out-of-character group who help make the game more fun for players. If joining them makes instant enemies of powerful guilds, or if there have to be faction-oriented rules in place for PF, that kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it? I can see an "us or them" attitude in RP, but people play games like these for different reasons, and some people who could benefit from Pegasus Foundation have no interest in PvP at all.

I'm starting to hate this discussion, so allow me to recap in short what the problem is again:
Jivalax says PF has the right to stay out of the whole IC kami/karavan debate. He makes a valid point, PF is not a guild like KoK or GJ that tries to be part of the story, it's, well like you said, an out-of-character group for players to help eachother out.
Raynes says his character cannot base his actions on such OOC arguments. He also makes a valid point. All his character sees is that PF claims to be neutral as a guild, but at the same time allows it's members to take side with the Karavan followers. If a guild is neutral, it's members are to be neutral.

As I see it, the whole problem here is the IC/OOC barier. As stated, PF is an OOC guild. As such, PF is not neutral in the kami/karavan conflict; they are in fact not in the conflict at all. The conflict takes place IC, while PF is an OOC guild. In view of this, I see only two possible solutions, based on what PF wants to be:
The first option is that PF makes a clear statement that they, as a guild, do not want to be part of any RPing. By doing so, they will acknowledge that PF does not exist as an IC entity. The characters of those PF members that do RP, like Zumwalt's, will then have to be seen as guildless from an IC viewpoint. Because then as far as our characters are concerned, PF will not exist at all.
If on the other hand, PF as a guild does want to exist on the IC level, as a neutral guild, then they have no other choice but to forbid their members to take a side in the conflict.

sidusar wrote:I'm starting to hate this discussion, so allow me to recap in short what the problem is again:
Jivalax says PF has the right to stay out of the whole IC kami/karavan debate. He makes a valid point, PF is not a guild like KoK or GJ that tries to be part of the story, it's, well like you said, an out-of-character group for players to help eachother out.
Raynes says his character cannot base his actions on such OOC arguments. He also makes a valid point. All his character sees is that PF claims to be neutral as a guild, but at the same time allows it's members to take side with the Karavan followers. If a guild is neutral, it's members are to be neutral.

As I see it, the whole problem here is the IC/OOC barier. As stated, PF is an OOC guild. As such, PF is not neutral in the kami/karavan conflict; they are in fact not in the conflict at all. The conflict takes place IC, while PF is an OOC guild. In view of this, I see only two possible solutions, based on what PF wants to be:
The first option is that PF makes a clear statement that they, as a guild, do not want to be part of any RPing. By doing so, they will acknowledge that PF does not exist as an IC entity. The characters of those PF members that do RP, like Zumwalt's, will then have to be seen as guildless from an IC viewpoint. Because then as far as our characters are concerned, PF will not exist at all.
If on the other hand, PF as a guild does want to exist on the IC level, as a neutral guild, then they have no other choice but to forbid their members to take a side in the conflict.

I have had to rewrite this many times to keep from the wrath of Cerest (A power nearly equal to Jena). But I just have to say as a VERY ACTIVE Matis player this is a bunch of hogwash.

I will give PF every kudo in the world for being fairly peaceful, but they are neither unbiased nor a simple group wanting to make friends. As the apparent "Extremist" Karavan guild, I'd be slacking to not chime in on this hooey.

PF in their passivism has made a note to show disdain to us so called extremists guilds on many occasions. ALL THE WHILE being one of the biggest pimp guilds in Matis. I am fairly sure their recruiting line isn't "I am sorry, but you will not be involved with the storyline in the game due to our beliefs". ALL the so called "moderate" guilds in Matis are the biggest pimps of new folks and then want to cry foul when the enemy smites them.

I am going to leave it as is for now... but DUDE, they want the prizes but not the penalty of being Karavan... Defend yourself, you appear to stand for something (If as you say you express it more). Don't associate with those that want rewards but not labels !

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Here we go with this PVP drivle again. *sighs*

Why is it that those that PVP INSIST upon pulling everyone into their blood baths? To me the concept that MY pascifism is upsetting a PVPer inspires the SAME compassion as hearing I offended the rapist when I pepper sprayed him, kicked him in the groin (with the force to send him into orbit) and then kicked him in the ribs hard enough to brake a rib? WAAAA too bad! He tried to rape me, and he is hurting, hope he learned something.

I don't have the skills to PVP, but I have diplomacy enough to find out what is going on, find those on the other side and goad them into vengance FOR me.


Now to my take on war in general. First off, War is a waste of time, energy, money and more importantly LIFE, in real life. Second off, if all of this waste was turned into a more productive vane we would have made ALL of the Sci fi movies FACT, not merily intertaining fiction. Thirdly, when there IS a war, there is ALWAYS a third disinterested party, willing to profit off the hemoraging of money time and energy that is wasted, and does not CARE about the life, or plays ignorant or denial games with themselves in the name of greed.

I do not enjoy the waste of play time that travel entails, add to that either a solo player or guild playing the fool. Sorry, I tend to run naked, so the idea of telling me to disarm is redundant and STUPID. But if I was high enough level that having my sword in hand would matter or I thought that ANYONE stupid and arrogant enough to tell me what to do, would ACTUALLY defend me...I might think about disarming, or I might defend myself, from the player OR the mob.

If you antagonise an antagonist...you make yourself as low as them. If you disrupt peace...in the name of peace...you are but a fool.

This game is PvP. It's a game. If I catch you off guard, and you're on the enemy team, you may have to defend yourself.

Trying to appeal to the fact that I'm a person isn't going to save you in game 8)

vguerin wrote: I am going to leave it as is for now... but DUDE, they want the prizes but not the penalty of being Karavan...

That says it all right there. They want the benefits of being aligned with the Karavan. They want the benefits of being a part of Atys. Yet they don't want to deal with any of the penalties. It's not just PF either. It's all neutral guilds. They want to have all the benefits from the good, without haveing to deal with the bad. That is unfair to say the least.

Does it need to be fair? I mean, let them have fun their way, we'll have fun our way. Trust me, we'll give you plenty of opposition. Who are they hurting?

Just kill them. Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill. Don't like it? Too bad! =D

madnak wrote:Does it need to be fair? I mean, let them have fun their way, we'll have fun our way. Trust me, we'll give you plenty of opposition. Who are they hurting?

Does it need to be fair? Yes. They are playing the same game I am. They sign in they are agreeing to the same guildlines that make up the game as I am. Therefore they have to deal with all of those rules and guidelines just as I do. If they do not like the rules then they shouldn't sign in.