Do we really need PvP?

[sofiaoak]

sorry to say but that is wrong.
im running a guild in WoW (yes wow ) and we play on a PvP server. we have almost 60 members and about 80% of us are very much pro pvp(as in for pvp not proffesional...) but the other 20% hardly ever pvp's actually never. and they seem to be doing very wel. how the deal wit it? well they just do quests or go hunt for reputation or go and do instances. yes they get killed once in a while but thats part of the game and they dont really mind.
there used to be a guild on our server who was purely PvE and it worked great.

I't does not matter what they do in the game, but do they like to be in open PvP community. It's a more like choosing the playing style and with who You play. Like You sayed it's PvP server, so choise is allready made, it's not anymore non-consentual PvP. To understant the different, make PvE server and then change it to PvP server. See what happen. That's what we are talking here. When the game is from start open PvP, it works nicely. But when changed to someting, it breaks the community. It does not even matter what direction the change go. People choose they playing style when they join in the game.

[manya]

... it points out that it is possible. for me anyway.

Yes, it is possible in a game where new players are told from the start: "This game contains open PvP. Other players can kill you at will, so watch out." This lets people know what to expect and only those remain who are in to PvP or don't mind being killed once in a while. Although I do believe WoW has a good amount of complains about unprovoked killings anyway.

In Ryzom the situation is a bit different. Here the situations was until now: "Other players can't attack you under normal circumstances." Now there is someone saying to us: "Oops, we forgot to tell you, other players can kill you whenever they like."

The people here are different, we *do* mind if we get killed without a good reason. That is why we play Ryzom and not WoW.

[drizzeth]

other players can kill you whenever they like."

Where does it say for sure/fact that players can kill you whenever they like?
I cant seem to find that anywhere, all i find are things pointing to a consentual aproach.

Id love a direct link to the source article about that

[sofiaoak]

Where does it say for sure/fact that players can kill you whenever they like?
I cant seem to find that anywhere, all i find are things pointing to a consentual aproach.

Id love a direct link to the source article about that

It was just example drizzeth, we are talking about some people on Ryzom, maybe wanna be open PvP. As far I know, nevrax has no intention to go open PvP. All what I have seen from nevrax, seem to indicate direction of consentual PvP.

[drizzeth]

It was just example drizzeth, we are talking about some people on Ryzom, maybe wanna be open PvP. As far I know, nevrax has no intention to go open PvP. All what I have seen from nevrax, seem to indicate direction of consentual PvP.

Okie if it was just theoretical forget what i said, but ive seen full-out pvp arguments so much in this thread i thought maybe theres this document of Nevrax i havent read.

For me saying things sounding like "people can atack you whenever they want" in this thread is just the fuel for some to light the fire, so again i was interested in the source

Thats all realy

[basicart]

Okey basicart, so basicly You say that current community is not what You wanna and You wanna more pro PvP community with open PvP. I can respect that, but I don't my self ever wanna see it on Ryzom. Mostly because about 70-90% of current player base would have to find new game to play. Of cause game would get a lot of new kind of players. So as business way it's the same, if nevrax has time to wait for new community.

Question is more then, what kind of community nevrax wanna, because both can never be in same game. PvE community with consent PvP community still works on same game, but PvE community with open PvP community will not work.

So thousand dappers question for You basicart is, do You belive nevrax is gonna make Saga of Ryzom to open PvP game on the future?

I think they will make it open PvP later on as outpost come through to try and get back the 1000s that have allready left the game due to one reson or another, it doesnt mattetr that they maybe making a mistake and losing the people that they still have i think there just trying to get more people interested in playing again, then the nerf hammer can fall once they got alot of subs and kick pvp out the window in a RP way ofc ...such as...
"Hazzar the war is over pvp is now disabled may all homins please unite to fight the kitin once more"
kinda thing heh

[oauitam]

Iv been playing from Beta1 though theres still some of us out there that would like open PvP and many more that have left allready without waiting for it.
The way i see it at the moment the style of game has been weening out alot of players and Ryzom then disides to try and get back whats been missing from day one "a end game" or "outposts" if you will. Problem is that they have took soooo long to get around to fixing it that if Ryzom then turns into a hardcore PvP game the ones that are still here wont care for it. cos they are mainly the type of peeps that like to have a friendly comunity without conflit.

Then again i could be wayyy off the mark aint slept in 20 hours due to killing alot of other people in other games since the ones here dont care for it much now-a-days

I think they will make it open PvP later on as outpost come through to try and get back the 1000s that have allready left the game due to one reson or another, it doesnt mattetr that they maybe making a mistake and losing the people that they still have i think there just trying to get more people interested in playing again, then the nerf hammer can fall once they got alot of subs and kick pvp out the window in a RP way ofc ...such as...
"Hazzar the war is over pvp is now disabled may all homins please unite to fight the kitin once more"
kinda thing heh

When posters like Basicart are even agreeing that this makes terrible business sense then I think the original question has been answered.

[Thanks to all the contributors that have kept this inflammatory thread civil and made it so enlightening!]

[basicart]

Woot was a great thread most impresive heh

[vutescu]

This was/is a long thread and I'm glad it wasn't hijacked or "spiced" with flames. There are some things I'd like to point:

1.
"No, try to take my words to a 9 year old kid learning how to deal with money.
Does the kid learn how to deal with money by nothaving any?
Or does it learn how to deal with money by having a personal amount to sped on whatever they like?"
Let's say a candy is 2$ and a soda 1$. You provide him with 2.50$ / day. After a while he will learn how to save money for a soda.
But giving him 5$ / day won't help.

2.
You can be killed everywhere IRL, I agree. But your chances to be killed are increased dramatically if you walk drunk on streets at 03.00 in the night, in an area known for criminal activity, and in a country who sells weapons at General Store. I mean we all *can* feel petty for the 18 yrs old raped and butchered girl, but you have to ask yourself what the heck was doing the girl at 03.00 in the night, half naked, near Jack the Ripper's house.
In other words: if you don't want to be hurt, don't create the opportunities for that. Don't give a knife to a psycho then turn your back and wait to see if the psycho is "mature enough" to not stab you.

3.
If you can place pro-PvP-ers arguments in one window and anti-PvP-ers in another and compare them you will see that the "anti" are using a civilised language and sensible arguments, and the "pro" are restricted to "I do what I like" "I don't care about what you say", "You are wrong I am right" ah, and "You are stupid", "Yes for PvP" (last one is da best *chuckle*).

4.
I don't want to turn this in an argue about what kind of person are PvP-ers and non PvP-ers, about age or mental/emotional state. When you choose to pay for a game - usually - you first look at what are you paying for. If fits your style, if your comp is ok with game requirements and stuff like that. So as long as people are paying for having a virtual paradise where hate and conflict are not welcome (see the box and adds) you can't just step on people's sand castles. They have chosen this game for certain reasons (one of them might be the nonPvP content) and they want it this way. They payed for it. You - as a ganker - have no right to stole this. Period.

edit: that mean phrase about nervous cells. sorry, wasn't meant to offend, but to challenge to better arguments.

[xenofur]

wow, nice cohesion there, first saying that the thread wasn't spiced with flames, then doing 3.
anyways, since you're obviously the one with more nervous cells, solve this:
take ryzom
set your goal to creating this game mechanic: guild-owned, extensible buildings that provider the owner certain benefits
do so without extensive changes on current game mechanics
do it in a way that prevents exploitation
do it without including any form of PvP