Ryzom

I buy a lot of stam and stam regen. Do I need it as a healer? Not at all! Why did I spend skill points on them? Because it helps me level fight faster, and I use fight to buy hp/invincible/etc. Once I have what I want from fight, all those dozens of points I spend on stam won't do me a drop of good. But they'll be worth it, because they helped me level fast.

Those who bought the specializations bought them because they knew they provided faster leveling at the expense of playing a harvester the way harvesters were meant to be played. They didn't hurt the class with this nerf -- they hurt the classes ability to cheese-it-up when it comes to EXP. I imagine if everyone complaining admitted that they were basically cheesing their way through EXP, their arguments wouldn't seem as valid to everyone.

I won't be whining when they nerf blind. I'm aware that I'll have been one of the people who took advantage of it for quick levels, and if anything, be happy that I could use it for gain pre-nerf. I know people may not have expected a nerf here, but let's be honest, these skills were purchased for cheesy EXP gain and not for actual use in harvesting.

In other MMORPGs, when they nerf this classes ability or that classes ability, there are no skill points to refund. It's not even an issue. Typically, when something's nerfed, people know it's because it was cheesy or imbalanced, and accept the nerf, without rerolling their chars.

All this having been said, the people wanting a refund do have a point. Re-reading what I wrote above, though, that point seems like just a whole lot of whining.

bfox3 wrote:Oh so they're getting to it, super. Interesting that they still chose not to "get" to it before this harvesting nerf, even though it affects the entire playerbase, not just the harvesting community.




Ok then, what Nevrax should do is lower the combat xp cap to 1700, which is about the max xp I can get from a pull. I mean what's fair is fair, right? While we're at it, we should take a whole line of combat actions and make them useless, how about increased damage or bleed? I mean, fair is fair, and whatever the wise devs say must be right, right?

I removed the extraction specialization and the jungle specialization from all my extraction actions, and saw zero difference in the speed, danger and quantity of extracted mats, while it used about a half the focus. That means those stanzas have no benefit whatsoever, they're just wasted SP. I've only had them for 4 days. How is it "more challenging" to simply nullify 80 skill points worth of skills? What was the challenge, to guess which skills were going to be nullified? Is that the kind of challenge that Ryzom is going to be?



This shows you have little to no knowledge of how difficult it is to a) find resources that you need b) find them in the right quality c) learn how to extract them without dying in a reasonable quantity, all while d) avoiding all aggro mobs that can kill you in 3 hits. Harvesting was plenty challenging enough. This nerf doesn't make it more challenging, just less fun.



Not more challenging, less fun. The game is a drag and a grind now, where it was fun before. I can't even extract q 100 mats, even though I have harmful extraction 100! I can only get 99, which matters if you want to make q100 weapons. Again, explain to me how it's more challenging to take an entire line of skills and make them useless. Are combat players ready to step up and become similarly emasculated?



You may not have noticed, Mr. Observation, but the NA server has like 250 people on it tops. Alienating 50 or 60 of them at this point is not a wise move. It's already such a low population game that it detracts from the experience. What I find amusing is the people who will come on the boards and defend ANY bone-headed action of the devs, as if they were relatives or as if you owned stock in the company. Take another 60 people out of the game and you won't have a game.

But... that's just my observation...

Okay... so jump up and down, stomp your feet and predict the demise of the game and of Nevrax because you, and these 50-60 others you claim to speak for, don't like the way they're handling an issue. I'm sure it'll bring them around to your way of thinking.

Here's where I'm coming from... First of all, it's a piece of software. Software has bugs. Bugs need time to be identified, tracked down and fixed. It's a fact of life. Deal with it. Or play board games.. they don't have bugs as far as I know.

Aside from that, there are several things in the game that I realize are bugs and can be annoying. But I also realize that they are being addressed and that addressing them takes time. I am aware that Nevrax does not have an endless army of programmers at their disposal to throw at every new issue as it pops up. I am aware that Nevrax's developers are not omnipotent nor perfect. I am aware that Nevrax have a bunch of things they are trying to tackle at once, all of which take time. I am aware that they are doing the best they can under the circumstances. As such, I am willing to give them the time to do so, and will help out if and where I can.

Jumping up and down, stomping my feet, complaining about it, and throwing out baseless predictions of failure, all based on the opinions of myself and a relative handful of "others", would do nothing to fix the problem. It would only make me look like an impatient whiner who's not happy unless I can get what I want, how and when I want it. Ultimately, if I felt that unhappy with the game.. I'd *stop playing it*. Though I'm sure that mentality makes me a "fanboi" to some, so be it. I call it being reasonable.

You feel the harvesting is challenging enough as it is and shouldn't be messed with. Fine. That's you. Others in these forums have stated that they feel it has been too easy and are fine with re-balancing/nerf-ing/what-have-you. That's them. So, there's clearly no monopoly on either side of the fence here. Nevrax feels it's out-of-whack, based on *their* design spec - no one else's - and are working to fix it.

aelvana wrote:I buy a lot of stam and stam regen. Do I need it as a healer? Not at all! Why did I spend skill points on them? Because it helps me level fight faster, and I use fight to buy hp/invincible/etc. Once I have what I want from fight, all those dozens of points I spend on stam won't do me a drop of good. But they'll be worth it, because they helped me level fast.

Those who bought the specializations bought them because they knew they provided faster leveling at the expense of playing a harvester the way harvesters were meant to be played. They didn't hurt the class with this nerf -- they hurt the classes ability to cheese-it-up when it comes to EXP. I imagine if everyone complaining admitted that they were basically cheesing their way through EXP, their arguments wouldn't seem as valid to everyone.

I won't be whining when they nerf blind. I'm aware that I'll have been one of the people who took advantage of it for quick levels, and if anything, be happy that I could use it for gain pre-nerf. I know people may not have expected a nerf here, but let's be honest, these skills were purchased for cheesy EXP gain and not for actual use in harvesting.

In other MMORPGs, when they nerf this classes ability or that classes ability, there are no skill points to refund. It's not even an issue. Typically, when something's nerfed, people know it's because it was cheesy or imbalanced, and accept the nerf, without rerolling their chars.

All this having been said, the people wanting a refund do have a point. Re-reading what I wrote above, though, that point seems like just a whole lot of whining.

I don't know about other games, but in UO, there is always the opportunity to reassign skill points after a change by dropping one skill and raising another. That's what is missing here.

Also, I don't particularly care for the implication that people who are requesting a refund on these revamped skill bricks are merely "whining" about the game becoming more challenging. They bought skills that had one function and now it has a totally different function. I can see their side of this.

No one I know who has these skills is actually wasting time complaining about the changes. Nor am I. As I said in my first post, I believe this is a major but necessary change.

It's merely a matter of confidence in this very new and very underpopulated underdog of a game that has a lot of potential and has so far realized only little of it.

I prepaid for a year of this game, so I am not going anywhere, at least as far as Nevrax's bean counters are concerned. I could stop playing today and it's not going to affect their financial picture for a year.

However, I do want to have other people to play with, and I am concerned that after a couple more changes like this, which do cause people to lose confidence in the skill system, I won't be seeing new faces and will start to miss familiar ones soon.

Also, I don't particularly care for the implication that people who are requesting a refund on these revamped skill bricks are merely "whining" about the game becoming more challenging. They bought skills that had one function and now it has a totally different function. I can see their side of this.

Maybe whining was a harsh way to put it, but all things considered, I don't think anyone who purchased those skills just for the sake of powerleveling has any room to complain about them not being usable for powerleveling anymore.

A large part of the problem and the feeling of a "nerf" is that they never got around to the Harvest "focus" during FBT. They never got to see how the changes to the XP system would be effected by a skill that has ALWAYS allowed you to harvest higher levels then your skills if the source allowed it. Part of the problem is they typically shove bad choices down our throats with little explanation. I dont want my SP back, like everyone that bought the skill I benefitted from the skill using it as it was intended.

Giving the skill new "speed" stanza ability is helpful, but not nearly as helpful as a "rate" boost would be. The value of additional materials is higher then the speed that my source gets to it's maximum level. I normally have my speed setting low and rate level high anyhow. It should also make the site more stable if it to have any value, I use gentle and both specs and still take enough damage to wonder if all the additional focus usage is warranted.

When Nevrax stops worrying about music (I can play music of my choice anytime I like without it in game) and mounts (which will be lying dead worldwide like packers are now) and focus on bug fixes and real missing content (guild missions, outposts, storyline) we will all be better off. I am feeling the same Exodus of players in my guild now that we saw during FBT, which was free. When folks think nobody is listening, they give up...

I cannot blame them, if after the 90 days I purchased to give them a chance to get going I cannot start on an Outpost, discover lore or see where things are going I will probably give up myself... and I love the hope this game shows.

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aelvana wrote:I buy a lot of stam and stam regen. Do I need it as a healer? Not at all! Why did I spend skill points on them? Because it helps me level fight faster, and I use fight to buy hp/invincible/etc. Once I have what I want from fight, all those dozens of points I spend on stam won't do me a drop of good. But they'll be worth it, because they helped me level fast.

Those who bought the specializations bought them because they knew they provided faster leveling at the expense of playing a harvester the way harvesters were meant to be played. They didn't hurt the class with this nerf -- they hurt the classes ability to cheese-it-up when it comes to EXP. I imagine if everyone complaining admitted that they were basically cheesing their way through EXP, their arguments wouldn't seem as valid to everyone.

I won't be whining when they nerf blind. I'm aware that I'll have been one of the people who took advantage of it for quick levels, and if anything, be happy that I could use it for gain pre-nerf. I know people may not have expected a nerf here, but let's be honest, these skills were purchased for cheesy EXP gain and not for actual use in harvesting.

In other MMORPGs, when they nerf this classes ability or that classes ability, there are no skill points to refund. It's not even an issue. Typically, when something's nerfed, people know it's because it was cheesy or imbalanced, and accept the nerf, without rerolling their chars.

All this having been said, the people wanting a refund do have a point. Re-reading what I wrote above, though, that point seems like just a whole lot of whining.

Ok, you explain to me your god-like indepth knowledge on "How a harvester was meant to be played" I didn't know you had all the insight there. If you read the decription of the skill it did exatly what harvestors were using it for. And on that note, does that mean that warriors and mages were "meant to be played" with max 1700 xp when they hit a certain level, if so then I must have missed that nerf when they nerfed foraging. Also the big part of the people here saying it's fair are non foragers that dont work there butt off in a grind profession. They get with there guild and go out and gain 3k xp per kill from mobs non-stop. I'm not saying none are not, just most of em. And the ones that are alwready got there 250 skill and it isn't going to affect them as much other than the SP's. If you get a chance please write down a list of how everything was meant to be played for the rest of us so we don't waste SP in the future.

aelvana wrote:All things considered, I don't think anyone who purchased those skills just for the sake of powerleveling has any room to complain about them not being usable for powerleveling anymore.

I agree with that statement - but I would still like to see Nevrax give people the opportunity to reuse skill points when the dev team is forced to totally change the function of a set of skill bricks. Not because I believe that powergamers should be coddled... actually powergamers rarely need to be handled with kid gloves and are the most likely to have already moved on and found the next powerleveling trick while the rest of us are still plodding along at Nevrax's planned pace.

I would like to see Nevrax refund the skill points in this case in order to boost people's confidence in investing their time in buying skill bricks. The people who bought these bricks to powerlevel are not the only ones whose confidence and trust in the dev team has been eroded by this change.

Players need to feel that they are not wasting their time and energy by investing in skills that may be totally changed in function without warning and without any remedy available. By refunding the skill points in this case, Nevrax can reassure us all that when they need to make major balancing changes, we will be given the opportunity to redirect skill points we have invested hours and hours of grinding to obtain.

In my opinion, that will help the player base to continue to grow.

Err, I have 180 SP worth of skills that are worthless thanks to yesterday's patch. but so long as is slows foragers down its all good right Lupine?

Yes Foragers were probably leveling too fast, but fighters/mages/crafters have an unfair advantage in their access to more than one skill path. Should those be stripped from them? oh my word whiners, nerf nerf nerf. Shrike I'm sure will be incensed on how can I possibly compare the usefulness of high focus to a lot of craft plans.. but whatever.

Why are you all even worried about the level of foraging? the level numbers are just an arbitrary thing that are pointless. If they added another 250 levels to each type of forage and made it even faster.. but in turn reduce quantity and quality of mats what difference would it make ro you? Seems like people would still be complaining because of class envy.

People are complaining because an undocumented change has totally changed the way their characters work. Someone at level 60 can easily be left with a third of their leveling made useless. Because of the changes in exp, they finally are better off rerolling than leveling past it as well. This is not good customer service, this is not good business, and it certainly isn't fair. Next time someone baits and switches product for you at a store don't cry foul.

Also, there is some kind of idiotic notion by the nerf lovers with all the class envy than this is going to "stick it to those powerleveling foragers". Guess they're too dumb to realize the opposite is true?

Those powerleveling foragers are now rewarded much more than ever. Nobody has the chance to compete with those of us who already got 100+, 150+, or 200+ in foraging already. Forager in Pyr noticed a foraging title I had in Pyr today and asked me how long it would take to earn that. I of course had to say, much longer than it took me to earn it. Plus the higher you'd powerleveld, the less of a level % those lost spec mats are to you.

Yes, Forage needs an overhaul... I've only been saying so since what... late beta 3? this is not an overhaul, this is a knee-jerk reaction of a slap-patch in reaction to people like we see here who are upset because they're having troulbe "keeping up with the joneses". This kind of reaction won't fix anything, it will make it worse.

There needs to be a true analysis of the problems with foraging, before one can really determine a solution.

rudedog3 wrote:Ok, you explain to me your god-like indepth knowledge on "How a harvester was meant to be played" I didn't know you had all the insight there. If you read the decription of the skill it did exatly what harvestors were using it for. And on that note, does that mean that warriors and mages were "meant to be played" with max 1700 xp when they hit a certain level, if so then I must have missed that nerf when they nerfed foraging. Also the big part of the people here saying it's fair are non foragers that dont work there butt off in a grind profession. They get with there guild and go out and gain 3k xp per kill from mobs non-stop. I'm not saying none are not, just most of em. And the ones that are alwready got there 250 skill and it isn't going to affect them as much other than the SP's. If you get a chance please write down a list of how everything was meant to be played for the rest of us so we don't waste SP in the future.

Those skills were purchased by most for the sake of powerleveling, not harvesting. The harvesters in my guild were all well aware that a nerf would undoubtedly be coming, and whipped up to high levels over the past couple days. That is what was happening. How did I provoke an angry response in vocalizing this?

EDIT: I still see the point that an undocumented change was made. In any other case I would support a refund. But for skills purchased to powerlevel... I expect blind may be nerfed, and I'd just feel cheesy as hell if I asked for my blind to be refunded knowing I used it just for leveling.

I have read some of this post. Some is to blantant "this affects me personally ... "

I am sorry that you feel that this has killed your character. Realize however that balance issues do happen. This is an interim fix ... ie not the final fix that is being worked on. 'Patch 1' is going to change alot more of harvest/forage ... take this for what it is ... an interim fix.

Would giving back sp solve anything now ... not really when the same people will want alot more back after 'Patch 1'.

I pay to play just as much as most of you ... got my billing email a day or so ago so I am now paying to play this over my initial free time.

Give the team a chance to fix the bugs and get 'Patch 1' out. Most will not be happy no matter what the outcome and only see the immediate 'this suxxors' instead of looking at the fact this game is 1 month old and Nevrax has to look at trying to get the game to be 1 year old by balancing things.