Ryzom

Ok we just need a Hitler reference and this thread is complete

More ontopic, I don't think it matters if something magical happens if/when one side holds all the outposts; granted before Nevy were in serious financial trouble, I had faith that they would do something, now I wouldn't be too peeved considering they have bigger priorities (yes I'd still like something, who wouldn't, but it wouldn't give me serious amounts of angst if nothing happened).

The point is that we, the players, would have acheived something - the fight will have meant something and even if we don't get some magical pat on the back I'll be happy with the knowledge that we did it. Pointless PvP means nothing to me, but when its a war you have to win, I care; Ryzom is a game that provides that.

xfluffee wrote:Yes. I am.

In all seriousness...you need to turn off the computer.
There is nothing in the game that can possibly rise to the level of an RL situation
(Unless, I suppose, someone made RL threats to you throught the game, or stole your CC info from the servers..but that is a bit of a stretch)

xfluffee wrote: Discrimination is discrimination, no matter where it occurs, no matter who is the benefactor or the victim.

yes..yes it is...
But one of the things all humans have to come to terms with in order to become adults is "matter of degree". I make discriminaitons all the time, about all sorts of things. Who to hire, who to hang with, what games to play. Here is the crucial difference (and why I think you need a few days off and a stiff drink): there are something that are a legal and moral wrong to discriminate against; sex, religion and race among them. There are others that are a moral wrong not to discriminate against (history of violence, intolerance, carelessness, etc.). And there are a whole, whole bunch of things that really make no difference in the broader scheme of things...the faction you play in an MMO is certainly the very least of these.

So, take a long nap. Go for a walk in the park. Enjoy time with your family. Get a grip on the real world again. Then come back and enjoy the pleasant meaninglessness of an MMO.

xfluffee wrote: If the game is supposed to present a balanced gameplay for all players, and allow them an equal chance whether they choose Kami or Karavan or neither, then the "will of the players" is violating the goals of the game.

That's a big IF there. Obviously the advantage is going to go to the more dedicated players over the more casual ones. I don't remember reading any where that things were perfectly balanced for all...but then, I try not to confuse equality of opportunity with equality of results.

For the majority of us, the "will of the players" is the goal of the game (I know circular logic there )

xfluffee wrote: If even one person has looked at the situation and, while preferring to choose the Karavan, they chose the Kami instead because they had (or appeared to have) more advantages, then the "community" has utterly failed and has thrown freedom out the window.

"if it can save the life of even one child, we should ban violent video games forever"

Really now, the player wieghed the advantages and made the choice; that is the very essence of freedom. Another thing that humans that want to become adults need to deal with is the idea of trade-offs and consequenses. If a player choses to place easy victory in front of long-term lore-play, who is to say it is wrong? That isn't the choice *I* would make, but people should be able to work these things out on thier own.

xfluffee wrote: THAT is why I say that Outpost rewards that affect gameplay should be eliminated until some sort of checks and balances can be implemented. If nothing is suitable (which is what I suspect), then the rewards should be implemented elsewhere, in a more fair manner.

Just because you are outraged, doesn't make you right.

You are all for removing the benifit you see other getting, mostly because you don't want to put forth the effort to get it yourself.
You have no good suggestion about what to replace them with, and it is your fervent wish that they are not replaced at all.

The most important thing that we all have to come to terms with is that life is not fair. This is something so basic, that no amount of meddling can correct it. It is so elemental, that is translates into every human endevor. Games are part of life. Life is not fair. Games will not be fair. The best we can hope for is to create a level playing field. After that, the smart, the strong, the fast, the dedicated and the brave will carry the day to the extent that they were naturally endowed with thier gifts.

I will never play basketball better than a pro-player will, does that mean the game is unfair? No, the rules are the same for all, and his combination of dedication and natural talent obviously give him an advantage.

That is life. It is unfair.

mrshad wrote:We talked about that one, Red. One side can effectivly stop any attacks, any where on the server, just by declairing on thier own OPs every two hours.

I don't particualrly dig the current situation, but I don't think a global limit really solves anything.

Now, limiting a guild to one attack every 24 hours might be a good start. It woud at least keep the more crazy nutters from declairing on three or four OPs at once.

You can already just keep declaring ... making it so only one per 2 hour period would just stop from having multi attacks at once... If people want to keep declaring on there selves,They can do it now.

So that reason for not implimenting a 1 op per 2 hour period, is not a good one IMO.

*edit*

mrshad wrote: The best we can hope for is to create a level playing field. After that, the smart, the strong, the fast, the dedicated and the brave will carry the day to the extent that they were naturally endowed with thier gifts.

I know plenty of Kami that are better at this game then most Karas (if not all), And they are still losing alot of times due too numbers, but also due too tactics often, Iv seen smaller numbers of Kami take greater numbers (equel levels) Kara tho(Not in OPs cus of guard ps usually(happens to oth sides). However, Rest of your post makes good points, and there is always a loop hole

raven41 wrote:You can already just keep declaring ... making it so only one per 2 hour period would just stop from having multi attacks at once... If people want to keep declaring on there selves,They can do it now.

So that reason for not implimenting a 1 op per 2 hour period, is not a good one IMO.

The difference is that a server wide timer stops attack on the entire server.

The act of falsely declairing on your own, or an allied, OP that some guilds seem very fond of lately, only stops the attack on that OP.

The result is that someone could keep declairing on a q50 OP over and over again, and keep the q250s perpetually safe.

I don't see anything particualry wrong with a well timed counter attack. Striking where your enemy is not seems like a pretty good idea, IMO. I suppose one could argue that it adds to OP stagnation...I can see that. Personally, I think it adds a bit of complexity to what usually turns out to be a numbers game.

And I like complicated.

It doesn't change the number game much really, Its just who ever has more at each op, instead of just one ... I think it takes away from battles most of the time... And it does add to stagnation alot... I just find it a underhanded tactic, Tho I am sure many will see it diferently, Many will also agree, Thats how it goes with opinions.

I was excited when OP's came online because I was certain we were going to see new zones very soon. I assumed that whole new regions would become available to accommodate those who did not want to bother with the factional conflicts, new areas for the winners, the losers and new battlegrounds for all of us. With the descriptions of R2, I figured expansion would be very simple and very common.

When XP crack came out, I was positive we were gonna see a level cap increase in weeks. No one would be so stupid as to put those in a game without having additional challenges coming. Combined with the OP release I was expecting major changes soon, new continents, new levels, new lore, maybe even a new faction. Well, I was wrong.

I personally spent a great deal of time choosing which side I was going to be on. Without the factions my character is completely pointless. I would be very upset if that was taken away from me in the name of balance. This is a role playing game, it is suppose to be a living role playing game and the foundations are there for it. Meaning that we are not locked in to our roles, our future.

To many people look at this game as being EQ or WoW, a game that is locked into a dead world, one that can not or will not change. This is Atys, things will change and if they don't, then they will disappear because the status quo is not going to keep the lights on.

If artificial restraints are placed upon outposts, the factions, the lore, the story, all of our personalities, they all become immediately irrelevant. I do not think anyone would be very happy to have trashcan man come and nuke the kami/karavan instead of having a final battle that players participated in.

So what is my point. The philosophies of the Kami and the Karavan can not coexist in a competitive environment. Meaning that the rebuilding of Atys has to follow one of the philosophies or there will be conflict. I am going to go out on a limb and say that we are not all going to join the same faction.

At this moment in time we are stuck with a horrid system of judging faction power, desire and will. OP's are really all the factions have. Many players on both sides abstain from them simply because they feel it is pointless. It is hard to counter that argument. The only thing I can say is that without some sort of common goal, groups can not survive. The only common goal that brings growth to a faction is getting more OP's from the opposing side and that is a shame. Hopefully new ways to work as a faction will be in game soon.

I would like to remind everyone that declaring on your own outpost for the purpose of raising your own threshold or blocking impending attacks by the opposing side/faction is considered exploitation, as you attempt to achieve a state in the game not obtainable through conventional methods, and therefore is a violation of the Terms of Agreement within Ryzom.

tydamus wrote:I would like to remind everyone that declaring on your own outpost for the purpose of raising your own threshold or blocking impending attacks by the opposing side/faction is considered exploitation, as you attempt to achieve a state in the game not obtainable through conventional methods, and therefore is a violation of the Terms of Agreement within Ryzom.

We woudl like you to remind everyone too.
---and maybe ban those that are doing it.

sprite wrote:[...]I don't think it matters if something magical happens if/when one side holds all the outposts[...] Pointless PvP means nothing to me, but when its a war you have to win[...].

That says it all.
Also annihilates any discussion.

There are players who want to live the experience of the new world, and there are players who want to win.
There are players who want to do pvp because they enjoy challenging their skills and others who see it pointless without a prize.

Between these two cathegories I don't think there can be common ground of discussion.... hence countless pages of controversies.


Now from a point of view of a game maker things might look a bit different: a game won means a game whose subscription we close. But of course, a game inhabitted only by people who live the life of the new world may be boring at times. Make the balance more go to the "achievers" then need a huge curve of grind and infinite time sinks like in WOW to keep people there. Close to perfect immersive annimations for fights would be an add. Make the balance recline to the story lovers then organise some events or give them complex craft, commerce and preferably houses.

In both cases don't forget a virtual community is a closed world, it won't balance by natural means, there isn't any Wellington to fight Napoleon, there isn't any US to oppose Germany, natural laws do not apply, those inside are alone with the mechanism the game maker provides, for the best or the worst.

tydamus wrote:I would like to remind everyone that declaring on your own outpost for the purpose of raising your own threshold or blocking impending attacks by the opposing side/faction is considered exploitation, as you attempt to achieve a state in the game not obtainable through conventional methods, and therefore is a violation of the Terms of Agreement within Ryzom.

Bit fuzzy imho, this statement only proves that OP's are badly implemented