Ryzom

I cleaned the English up a bit because I wanted to use this quote to make a point -- hope you don't mind, Mith.

mithur wrote: My problem it's the same: the game is targeted to be pretty fun at high level; i'm sure you can make it, without changing that, more fun at low level too, and less frustrating (Like the actual event; while it's truely a slaughter week, it far from fun for a lot of people).

I think this is getting at a key issue. Ryzom has been a niche game for a long time. For a couple of years now, a small core of devoted players has been playing it a lot, and enjoying it. Those people not only love the game... they are now good at it (from practice) and their characters are powerful (from having levelled up and gained experience). And of course, there is nothing wrong with that.

BUT...

... I think a lot of vets, who have not been an actual level 50 in many months or even years (and I don't mean someone with 250 in 8 different other skills who is working level 50 ranged combat or something, but a REAL level 50 where 50 is his highest skill) -- I think a lot of them have forgotten what it was like to be a true newbie. The things that can frustrate a low true low level character are things that a high level character can (literally) shrug aside.

A non-extreme example: I remember when walking from Yrkanis to the Kami Circle was an exercise in frustration and usually asking for death penalty. Most trips I would have to respawn at least once, sometimes a couple of times, before I got there. I'd do OK for most of the trip but there was always one spot or other where I got jumped by multiple gingos or raguses, and I'd end up in the dirt. I was around 60th level fight, and my other skills (other than maybe desert forage) were far below.

Now, my character is level 107 or something in close combat and 1-hand swords. She has Q110 heavy armor (vs. Q45 medium ranger armor). She has higher level HP jewels. Now, today, if I want to go to the Kami Circle, I just go... and mostly ignore the gingos (I can one-shot them). Getting to Kami Circle is trivial for a level 107.

But it was not trival for a level 57, and I think people who are very very high level, and have been for quite some time, can forget what it was like to be truely low level. It's easy to fool yourself into thinking you do remember, by putting on the amps (say) and becoming a level 50 affliction mage, and saying, "See I am experiencing the level 50 game." But you're really not, because you have +2000 hit points or so over a real level 50, if you're a level 250 swordsman switching to amps... and you can wear much more powerful jewels, and even use light armor that gives you more HP than the lowbie could get from heavy. So there's really no comparison... and I think sometimes vets tend to forget it.

I know it happens to me, also... with harvesting more than combat. I often forget how unbe-freaking-lievably hard and downright frustrating 50 m search, with no specializations, and 5 m 10 degree prospect, could be. Heck I have trouble sometimes with 350 m specialized search and 40 m 90 degree specialized prospect, but with the real beginning stuff, it was very difficult. It's easy to forget how frustrated you were, as the months go by... and of course not everyone was frustrated. But I know I was, back on Silan, when I first started (to the point where I was sure I'd never harvest in the main game once I got off Silan), and it's important to realize that just because as a high level you are not experiencing those frustrations today, doesn't mean you never did, or that no one else will.

It's also important to realize that not everyone enjoys the same things out of a game. I happen to really like Ryzom's harvesting and crafting system. I find its combat system decent enough in short bursts, but not something I'd want to do for long stretches. Once a week with my guild for a couple of hours is enough. The rest of the time I RP, or harvest/craft. That's what I'm happy doing. If they put in an event that (as this one is sort of doing) ends up making it hard or impossible for me to harvest and basically leaves me stuck doing a lot more combat than I would like, why should I *enjoy* that? Just because you do, don't assume I will.

My solution is to cut back on my login hours this week and do other things.... since I am not really into hardcore combat for hours at length, and this event is entirely combat oriented. I don't have a problem with "sitting it out."

But I *do* have a problem when the vets who can easily wipe the floor with these kitins, take me and others to task because we don't happen to enjoy the event. I'm not angry that I feel the need to sit this one out... but I have been flamed (mildly, I admit, but flamed nevertheless) on these forums for having the unmitigated gall to actually dare saying I am probably going to sit it out because I'm not enjoying it. And that's the part I don't like... as long as I'm polite about it why can't I say I don't find the event fun without having people jump down my keyboard?

To sum up I would like to urge two things.

First, I would like to urge vets to realize that what is "trivial" for them is hard for a newbie, and what is hard for them can be downright impossible for a newbie, because by definition newbies do not have your player skills, character level, or equipment/skill stanzas. So perhaps we can try to be a tad less judgemental when a struggling new player comes on here to state his woes and ask for a bit of moral support. Because I'd rather see players giving each other moral support than see the vets flaming new players and basically saying the equivalent of the sorts of things I expect from other game communities ("LRN 2 PLAY, n00b!", in so many words).

Second, I would encourage people to understand that fun is different for everyone, and that (a) just because YOU have fun doing something in the game doesn't mean I do, and (b) just because I *don't* happen to have fun at one thing in Ryzom, and state it, doesn't mean I am bashing Ryzom or dislike the game.

C

Wow, seems you feel very strongly for this eh Sandaara? Well I think I agree with you on just about all parts there.

I think it'll be a shame if we lose new people due to this event, but it's not hard to just sit it out for a week (for me anyway... dunno about some people *grins*)

Chessack if your Lake harvesting is below 200 you could go to Enchanted isle and harvest.
There are a couple zones that are practically safe from the kittins during this week.
One is by the Kami tp.

happy harvesting


Elijah

Have not been able to get to the Lake district at all. Our guild has tried to do treks a few times but we never seem to be able to work it out (timing wise). And at least one of the ones they had, they did on a day when I could not make it... oh well.

I think it goes without saying that with the invasion, making a trek would be either much harder than normal, or perhaps flat out impossible. So again, I will just sit it out.

In fact I don't have to totally sit it out... I've got half a mind to use the weekend to play with the Ring, which I've had on my to-do list since it came out but not got around to because I like harvesting so much.

C

No problem at all with the cleaning of my english; I know it's not good at all.

At first, after my complaint, I wanna say something: I really like this game. First, It's complex, and that's pretty good (Even if it's sometimes frustrating too, but a lot of times is very rewarding), have no instances (And I love that), have a very good and helpful community (Even if the critics threshold is low), and have a dawn pretty background and aesthetics (For me, the fyros and Matis items are beautifull). And have a low advance rate, at least for a first character, and that's good, cos I know that I'll be doing new things, knowing new lands, learning new ways (stanzas) and taking/making new items in six months or a year. And you can play this game even if you work and yu only have ten hours at a week. And that's pretty good.

I'll not leave this game at all, sure. And I'm sure I'm near to go out from the "newbie problem". But, as it is, I know there are a problem, and I want to take people here, and I want that the people liking this idea stands here, to make Nevrax strong, and to make the server more populated.

So, I'm trying to tell my fresh experience to a community mainly formed with people of high level, very-veteran players who don't remember how it was at low level (And not only low level of char, low level of Game Knowledge).

RoS is fine, It works fine (Even if I don't know how it's now with the free trial cap at 21), but then, when you come to mainland it's a little more hard take a good pace.

And I'm sure that if I came to mainland and I find this invasion, probably I don't know what is invasion and what isn't, and is very possible I left the game full of frustration.

I never do that, but I can understand people doing that.

mithur wrote:But my point is that the low level players need a little bit more of story, a little more of inmersion not PC-dependant, because they use to be more disconnected, by game design, from the main line of the game defined by PCs.

I agree, a bit, it is a valid point. Once out of the island the NPC fueled story becomes a lot more background noise. I'm at a bit of a loss as to what you would like to see as more inmersion. New players are sort of cut loose after the island and must find their way into the big world. Essentially this means making friends, joining a group, learn and participate in the big world events and possibilities, the game(mechanics) forces one into this.

And what made laugh was what I perceived as a little sarcasm in your first paragraph, but that's just me I gues

0balgus0 wrote:Story?

Lore?

*cough*

You complain about bugs in Ryzom, yet you also came from SWG, a craptacular game with 10x more bugginess than this one (o yea, I'm from there, too). Pre CU combat system was nice, but the Bugs and the crappy service were far far far worse than any you'd find in Ryzom.

Yet another thread started by a player seeking to have functions from their previous game be inserted into Ryzom. Stop rocking my happy-Ryzom-boat, and go take a dive off the side.

QFE!! I too came here from SWG and I was a 34 month vet when I left in August!
The bug issues here that I have ran into are very few and none of them are by any means game breaking! Unlike the abortion of the game that they now call SWG and this also goes back to pre-cu! That game is so buggy that an exterminator would throw up his hands and leave!
If you remember pre-cu SWG also had no story line at all they just plunked the game between Episode 3 and 4 if remember correctly and had no story development at all! They just leached off of the movies and said good enough! Where as Ryzom had to invent thier entire history and lore and as I am fairly new myself I have not seen a bunch of the Characters and experienced a lot of the story line except what I have added to it!

geezas wrote:I agree, a bit, it is a valid point. Once out of the island the NPC fueled story becomes a lot more background noise. I'm at a bit of a loss as to what you would like to see as more inmersion. New players are sort of cut loose after the island and must find their way into the big world. Essentially this means making friends, joining a group, learn and participate in the big world events and possibilities, the game(mechanics) forces one into this.

Hard to say what can be more inmersive. But there are a constant: everytingh that you start when you come to mainland (lvl 40-50) are focused to high level; this is: you are starting a path that ends in lvl250. The enciclopedia, the factions, all of that.

About the guilds... usually you cant do anything until lvl 100-150 (Yeah, they help you, my guild help me a lot, but I'm a baby, not a member that do thing for the guild). With lvl 50 you can't go out from your region, so there are only one outpost from your level... lucky for you if your guild has a battle in that outpost. The more probably it's that not happening.

So, I think that make some line only for PCs lvl 50-100 could be a good idea. Something like City & village troopers, with ranks, missions and points or similar (Sometimes mixing with another lines, like enciclopedia or factions, to give lore to the rookie easily). It could be a fair way to make newbies team, give them a sensation of a group where they are the elite (And they know that there are another groups highter, but in *that* group they are the important part, you know). Something like that. It could give more background to ryzom, more groups, and a strong guide to newbies in island. I think it culd futhfill a existant vacuum.

You know, an lvl 50 player can say proudly "I am a city guard of Yrkanis" (And deliver messages to some village, clean some areas, thinks like that) . And then, when he archieves some rank and missions, the is sent to Danae, because it's a little more dangerous, and have another title "Davae Corporal", an can be proud to serve in the regular troops from the King Yrkanis, even if he knows that will be a moment in his life that it will become little for him and will licenciate to take a more adventurer-alone-faction-guild live. (This is a matis example, of course. With another homins, something similar, with different lore)

geezas wrote: And what made laugh was what I perceived as a little sarcasm in your first paragraph, but that's just me I gues

The bad english paragraph, or the "good Ryzom" paragraph? Neither of them are ironic. My english is poor (And I know that, i'm from a non-english country, and I've never been in an english country) and I like a lot this game (even when I know that I'll love a lot more when I'm lvl 150 and can complaint about "that damn rookies" that wanna change everything, and say that "the old times was best" and all of that -*That* was ironic )

mithur wrote:About the guilds... usually you cant do anything until lvl 100-150 (Yeah, they help you, my guild help me a lot, but I'm a baby, not a member that do thing for the guild). With lvl 50 you can't go out from your region, so there are only one outpost from your level... lucky for you if your guild has a battle in that outpost. The more probably it's that not happening.

So, I think that make some line only for PCs lvl 50-100 could be a good idea. Something like City & village troopers, with ranks, missions and points or similar (Sometimes mixing with another lines, like enciclopedia or factions, to give lore to the rookie easily). It could be a fair way to make newbies team, give them a sensation of a group where they are the elite (And they know that there are another groups highter, but in *that* group they are the important part, you know). Something like that. It could give more background to ryzom, more groups, and a strong guide to newbies in island. I think it culd futhfill a existant vacuum.

You know, an lvl 50 player can say proudly "I am a city guard of Yrkanis" (And deliver messages to some village, clean some areas, thinks like that) . And then, when he archieves some rank and missions, the is sent to Danae, because it's a little more dangerous, and have another title "Davae Corporal", an can be proud to serve in the regular troops from the King Yrkanis, even if he knows that will be a moment in his life that it will become little for him and will licenciate to take a more adventurer-alone-faction-guild live. (This is a matis example, of course. With another homins, something similar, with different lore)

Your idea about city oriented mission that are more immersive is quite good. I would think after RoS this is something they might consider doing... However I don't think it has a priority over content for the folks that are higher level, you will quickly roll past the missions oriented around the towns and be sitting at higher levels looking for "the beef". Excellent idea, it's merely a matter of priorities and as much as I want to see them (Nevrax) draw more folks, I think those of around since release need some love too...

As for your statement that a level 50 guild member isn't helpful at higher level OP battles, I disagree. I know there has not been an OP battle lately where our guild or allies (and surely opponents but I can only speak firsthand) haven't been bringing new folks to attend.

The new folks attend to contribute where they can as well as experience the chaos. Often a trek immediately proceeds every OP battle... I enjoy seeing the newer members of Melinoe finally seeing an OP battle and saying "Whoah"... The difference they make is more one of comraderie than support, but nobody cares and all are happy.

Your guild may not ask you to attend to not offend or push you... but I assure you they'd love to have you come along... A wall cannot be build with one brick.

vguerin wrote: Your guild may not ask you to attend to not offend or push you... but I assure you they'd love to have you come along... A wall cannot be build with one brick.

/tar DT
/Bow

Indeed! Every Homin has the same intrinsic value, everyone can contribute in some way, be it big or small.