Ryzom

raynes wrote:Did he armor that Aen and the other tribes drop kill the crafting comminuty? No, it's still there and thriving. Also how would a loot prize like a item that increases stats on weapons kill the crafting community? Or how would a consumable kill the crafting community?

An item that would increase the stats of a weapon would undermine the crafting of weapons with stats. Unless you are talking about the loot item also adding stats to player crafted stat items too... because then you have unbalancing issues with combat. Overpowered players for the content. Of course, you could provide more challenging content for the overpowered players, but then you are forcing players to do missions to gain access to new content...

Welcome to EQ2.

raynes wrote:.....

Well you could have it drop a nice weapon. You simply have it so that the Kitin are guarding a treasure and it doesn't "drop" from them. You make it so the sword can only be used by level 200+ characters.

You could have it drop something that enhances player equipment attributes. Maybe you kill the Kitin boss and it drops an antennia. That can be used with any blade to make it sharper.

Or maybe it drops some sort of amber that lets you see the stats of a mob when you walk up to it.

If you are really unhappy with the idea of a drop, then come up with a reward besides mats that players will get when finishing the Kitin Lair.

I would like to point out that drops of specific weapons would be bad, given Ryzoms skill structure, unless the Kitin are dropping magic amps, and the implications of that I dont want to go into at this time of night
At least nobody was excluded from using Aen because they trained the wrong combat branch..

Your other suggestions sound like whats already available with OP mats, which still involves crafters.

Why should crafters be denied this new content.. saying its just for fighters is a bit greedy isnt it ?

While no drop that's far from perfect or being a "complete set" (thinking of purple, anyone? - your bad ) but being "good enough" to be considered a reasonable reward would actually kill crafters' businesses (maybe restricting some, or reducing some to reward processors), any kind of drop beyond the mat or item schematics we -and the economy- are used to will seriously facilitate farming, farming's side effects included...
Proven to be this way with Aen already... I don't won't to see more reboot or season change rushes than we have already and I definitely don't want to see any (more) spawn camping, I still do have some hope, though.

Compare to the OPs, if you will...
Mat with better stats? = Farming.
Mat with the possibility of raising stats? = Farming.
Relatively good item drops? = Farming.
Good consumables? = Farming.

Seems that almost the only choice to not unbalance the scales even more were some mat that only provides a new color or a crafting plan that only provides a new looking something - as has been mentioned already.

Didn't vote, however... too little distinctable choices

By the way... apart from their regular (craft) loot, why do mobs get slaughtered now? For the XP... Why does a new "high level" area have to have rewards better than the (craft) loot gained? Have you been spoiled that much by the OPs?

to be clear uber loot in the form of weapons, armor, etc that is beyond the ability of crafters to produce.

Raynes if you honestly believe that Aen, event shields, etc have produced anything but a detrimental effect then i think you are being naive.

good rewards from the kitin lair are not limited to mats, although there are many options with mats that would be great. as suggested earlier adding visual effects to current equipment, a dye to produce different colors on exisiting equipment, plans for different desgins, the rangers could offer banners and badges and tattoo's and all sorts of things...

rothimar wrote:An item that would increase the stats of a weapon would undermine the crafting of weapons with stats. Unless you are talking about the loot item also adding stats to player crafted stat items too... because then you have unbalancing issues with combat. Overpowered players for the content. Of course, you could provide more challenging content for the overpowered players, but then you are forcing players to do missions to gain access to new content...

Welcome to EQ2.

It wouldn't undermind the crafting of the weapon as you would still need the crafted item for it to work. And it doesn't provide unbalancing issues if done right.

Lets use uber Kitin Saliva as the loot:
Makes decay of items 75% slower.
Makes harvesting picks stronger, able to dig deeper for better mats.
Can be added during crafting to allow the player to choose the dye color of the mat.
Can be poured on a magic amp cause recharge times to increase.
Can be added to ranged to make ammo last twice as long.

iwojimmy wrote: Why should crafters be denied this new content.. saying its just for fighters is a bit greedy isnt it ?

See above suggestions. And why should non-crafters be excluded from the reward of the content?

xolghost wrote: By the way... apart from their regular (craft) loot, why do mobs get slaughtered now? For the XP... Why does a new "high level" area have to have rewards better than the (craft) loot gained? Have you been spoiled that much by the OPs?

Because there should be more to the game then xp and crafting. There needs to be rewards for doing things that are useful to all professions. All game content shouldn't be centered around crafting.

I would be opposed to anything that replaces/diminishes the need for crafters.

Separate rewards that aren't mats like Rushin mentioned would be fine.


Though I would also be weary of anything that made homins much more powerful (we don't need the game made easier)

rushin wrote: good rewards from the kitin lair are not limited to mats, although there are many options with mats that would be great. as suggested earlier adding visual effects to current equipment, a dye to produce different colors on exisiting equipment, plans for different desgins, the rangers could offer banners and badges and tattoo's and all sorts of things...

That is not what people are argueing though. There is this huge backlash that people insist that the only acceptable loot from anything is crafting items. That somehow doing anything different will destroy the game.

Just look at the poll. You can either choose uber loot or crafting items and plans. Nothing else is acceptable. I read that and I see "you don't craft, screw you, you should be happy to get a reward that someone else can use for you!" It's the viewpoint that I have an issue with and am argueing strongly against.

raynes wrote:Just look at the poll. You can either choose uber loot or crafting items and plans. Nothing else is acceptable. I read that and I see "you don't craft, screw you, you should be happy to get a reward that someone else can use for you!" It's the viewpoint that I have an issue with and am argueing strongly against.

Look at the proportions though... certainly seems popular. Player crafted economy = strong point of ryzom.

non-crafted (but non "equipment" stuff) sounds interesting yes... like maybe alternate crystal/flower sources. Just... most of us love the craft system so its a bit hard to conceive of non-equipment "stuff" outside consumables.

City of Heroes does not really have loot, no drops of weapons, mats, etc. They instituted "Badges", so you get a badge for killing X number of Yubos, or something. Certain combinations of badges give small bonuses, like +5% damage, or defense, etc. Badges cannot be sold, or traded. It is mostly bragging rights, with some small bonuses.

So perhaps in Ryzom, when you kill the Kitin uber boss, you get the uber boss badge. This could give some small bonus to the skill you were using when he was killed. If you were using 2-H range, for example, then your 2-H range could get +5% accuracy, or range, or damage. One bonus per skill, so next time, you should use 2-H melee or something.

This eliminates the effects on the economy, and still allows those who spend the time on the boss to get some benefit. Players would get the badge, so they can brag and show it off, and some small bonus. (Or perhaps a temporary power/bonus similar to cats).

Blackavar

raynes wrote: That is not what people are argueing though. There is this huge backlash that people insist that the only acceptable loot from anything is crafting items. That somehow doing anything different will destroy the game.

Just look at the poll. You can either choose uber loot or crafting items and plans. Nothing else is acceptable. I read that and I see "you don't craft, screw you, you should be happy to get a reward that someone else can use for you!" It's the viewpoint that I have an issue with and am argueing strongly against.

And yet I insist, that you may be considering this from the wrong point of view. First, I (personally, I won't speak for other posters) have not stated that the ONLY acceptable reward has to be mats. And I specifically answered you on that. My quote "It is still a mat that can be used to craft, maybe not by yourself, but by a crafter" was referring to the mat you said it was useless to you. Stating from there that the only rewards should be mats is wrong.

This "binary only" poll may not take into account other options, true, the poll could have had other options, or be more open to discussion, much as your "what do you want to have next in game" (should we consider than devs should work only on the items you proposed? Should I read your poll and see "you are not into Encylopedia, roots above, fame or whatever, screw you!", and yell "It's the viewpoint that I have an issue with and am argueing strongly against" as you stated?, .. personally not), but I took it as a "follow on" poll from other threads were the concern about having "uber drops" would affect crafters, and I interpreted it this way: if you have to choose ONLY between a drop that is a 97/97 (or better) magic amplifier or 20 mats that can be used to craft it, yes I would vote for the mat.

Rushin wrote: to be clear uber loot in the form of weapons, armor, etc that is beyond the ability of crafters to produce

I took it this way and this by no means precludes the use of other rewards