Ryzom

rothimar wrote:Too bad Nevrax doesn't have the budget that some of the larger gaming companies have... then maybe you'd already have what you want.

Of course... discouraging newer players isn't going to help the revenue stream much.

/sigh

If a new player is discouraged by one post, I highly doubt that they had planned to play the game long anyway.

rothimar wrote: Of course... discouraging newer players isn't going to help the revenue stream much.

/sigh

Of course, discouraging new players will not help the revenue stream. But things are not black or white. There are a few factors:

Raising concerns (e.g. "complaining", a.k.a. "whining") is a form of feedback, agreed, as long as it is constructive and done well. Any developer will tell you that (I'm not wanting to sound preachy), and Nevrax explicitly stated that. Language (as many other things) shows cultural aspects and I saw huge differences in the way different communities express. I can either say "this sucks" or "this needs improvement" but the message remains the same. I'm sorry, when there are no negative messages I personally do think something is wrong, or even that loving players are started to not care anymore.

False "adulation" does not help either, like posting "wow great! Amazing work" when a patch goes live that fixes the swapped Armillo "stam/sap" boost incorrect messages... or saying "great event!!!" when NPCs came, cut&pasted a speech and left leaving no room for interaction to RolePlaying characters, not answering questions, etc...

Honesty. If a friend asks *me* to comment on Ryzom, I will, of course subjectively, give my thoughts on the game. I will raise good things and bad things, and give direct answers. If he asks me "are there nice quests in Ryzom?", I am not going to give sneaky answers trying to highlight other aspects of the game. Maybe my friend already knows that it *is* an open world, that live events are nice, whatever, to that specific question I'll answer "no" -- and I *may* mention that, apparently, Ring should streamline content addition and new quests will be created--. If a long term player (miss ya, Sinful!) asks me "is there anything new in Ryzom since i left 9 months ago?", knowing his playstyle and background, I'll say "no", not giving him a speech about the niceties of Silan. And should I have to write about it, it will not be a "Press Release Article" but (exaggeration for dramatic purposes) lying, hiding, or contourning the truth, giving indirect answers to give a biased image of the game, be to get more players or for whatever, is not in some players priorities.

Sorry for the long post. Maybe I sound bitter, preachy or condescendant, maybe having played it for long is the reason it is wearing off. But I do thnk that I have the (minor) right to expect new features and updates, and hearing again and again the "soon(tm)" the "small company" the "it's coming" and "look at what we plan to release, but not yet". What do you want me to say?

Yours truly,

raynes wrote:If a new player is discouraged by one post, I highly doubt that they had planned to play the game long anyway.

It's difficult to say. Someone judging whether or not they want to pay for a game sees someone who has a history with the game bashing it with someone else posting a statement that the players are never listened to, might deter people from upgrading from the free trial.

I suppose I don't understand why someone would stay with a game they are apparently so frustrated with. I would think such a player would find a game they are happy with instead. I don't want to get into a flame war or bicker back and forth about this, but I just thought it might be worth pointing out that complaining your complaints aren't listened to seems like you *want* to damage whatever impression people have of Nevrax, or the developers.

There is plenty I would like to see finished/updated in Ryzom based on my experiences with the game and the materials I have read concerning past development delays. But I also understand that development costs money, and without the heavy hitting budgets some of the large game publishers have, it takes time.

Nevrax doesn't have the budget that SoE and Blizzard Entertainment have, but Nevrax does have a game I would much rather play. With a bit of luck, R2 will provide the funding needed to more rapidly develop the content which will improve the game beyond its current state, and perhaps you will get some of what you want out of it.

In the meantime, you might as well enjoy what parts you do like, otherwise, what's the point?

I don't mean this to come across as confrontational, just an observation.

rothimar wrote:It's difficult to say. Someone judging whether or not they want to pay for a game sees someone who has a history with the game bashing it with someone else posting a statement that the players are never listened to, might deter people from upgrading from the free trial.

I suppose I don't understand why someone would stay with a game they are apparently so frustrated with. I would think such a player would find a game they are happy with instead. I don't want to get into a flame war or bicker back and forth about this, but I just thought it might be worth pointing out that complaining your complaints aren't listened to seems like you *want* to damage whatever impression people have of Nevrax, or the developers.

There is plenty I would like to see finished/updated in Ryzom based on my experiences with the game and the materials I have read concerning past development delays. But I also understand that development costs money, and without the heavy hitting budgets some of the large game publishers have, it takes time.

Nevrax doesn't have the budget that SoE and Blizzard Entertainment have, but Nevrax does have a game I would much rather play. With a bit of luck, R2 will provide the funding needed to more rapidly develop the content which will improve the game beyond its current state, and perhaps you will get some of what you want out of it.

In the meantime, you might as well enjoy what parts you do like, otherwise, what's the point?

I don't mean this to come across as confrontational, just an observation.

It's really simple, I came back after a year long absence (not counting the week I popped in sometime ago) and I say things that made me want to smash my head on a desk. So instead of smashing, I posted my thoughts.

Are there parts of Ryzom that I love? Of course. I had an im conversation about the animal and kami models in game. I probably talked over an hour how really incredible the Kitin were. I sent him a link to this kami picture:
http://www.ryzom.com/images/lore/screen ... 00_600.jpg
Then went on to tell him I made a whole village of them running around laughing and wagging their tales. He even comented on how much excitement I spoke about the game.

And of course I am paying again, so there must be something worth playing for. That does not mean that I shouldn't express my dislike for certain aspects of the game.

rothimar wrote:
I suppose I don't understand why someone would stay with a game they are apparently so frustrated with. I would think such a player would find a game they are happy with instead.

With all due respect, this argument, while valid, is imho shortsighted. Again, "take it or leave it" or "why you play if you don't like it?" can be explained in a gazilion ways, and does not take into account lots of things as invested time, lack of alternatives, overall global satisfaction but specific frustrations, without mentioning that it is a fact that MMRPGs do crate addiction and, as always and natural, "love for the game" wears off (including myself)

In average, I would not think a single player feels the same after a few weeks of playing, rushing to play every afternoon and getting the shakes while at work, and the same player after a few years of play. Finally, I should not rehash that (although this "policy" has changed a lot in the last months) there have been huge differences between what was promised and what was delivered -- maybe our fault for not being able to see the trees while being shown the forest? -- and some players stuck to that promise, and waited for it to be delivered. At least, this aspect has improved: there are no longer promises of aging&children, new mounts, subaquatic mobs, diplomatic outposts, guild missions, meaningful fame and tribes, angels and demons, 5% of Atys shown, 99 layers of Prime Roots....

I completely agree that you should discuss what you dislike. There is absolutely nothing wrong with feedback. I suppose it was the direction the thread seemed to be taking which prompted me to post.

I didn't mean to disrespect you, or invalidate your concerns. I guess it was the tone things seemed to be adopting which I believe newer players could find discouraging, especially since you are a veteran of the game.

No hard feelings intended... hopefully none taken.

raynes wrote:It's really simple, I came back after a year long absence (not counting the week I popped in sometime ago) and I say things that made me want to smash my head on a desk. So instead of smashing, I posted my thoughts.

Are there parts of Ryzom that I love? Of course. I had an im conversation about the animal and kami models in game. I probably talked over an hour how really incredible the Kitin were. I sent him a link to this kami picture:
http://www.ryzom.com/images/lore/screen_kami2_800_600.jpg
Then went on to tell him I made a whole village of them running around laughing and wagging their tales. He even comented on how much excitement I spoke about the game.

And of course I am paying again, so there must be something worth playing for. That does not mean that I shouldn't express my dislike for certain aspects of the game.

When someone begins posting things like "shell of the game we were promised", I find it hard to believe that many people wouldn't wonder why the poster is still here if it's that bad.

I can understand the frustration of a customer not getting features that were promised by the company developing the purchased product. I've been in sales/marketing for 13+ years now. But I can tell you first hand, a client of mine that presents an issue in a relatively respectful manner will get attended to before one who calls me screaming.

Just food for thought, and again, I am not trying to step on toes... just trying to offer a different perspective.

iphdrunk wrote:With all due respect, this argument, while valid, is imho shortsighted. Again, "take it or leave it" or "why you play if you don't like it?" can be explained in a gazilion ways, and does not take into account lots of things as invested time, lack of alternatives, overall global satisfaction but specific frustrations, without mentioning that it is a fact that MMRPGs do crate addiction and, as always and natural, "love for the game" wears off (including myself)

In average, I would not think a single player feels the same after a few weeks of playing, rushing to play every afternoon and getting the shakes while at work, and the same player after a few years of play. Finally, I should not rehash that (although this "policy" has changed a lot in the last months) there have been huge differences between what was promised and what was delivered -- maybe our fault for not being able to see the trees while being shown the forest? -- and some players stuck to that promise, and waited for it to be delivered. At least, this aspect has improved: there are no longer promises of aging&children, new mounts, subaquatic mobs, diplomatic outposts, guild missions, meaningful fame and tribes, angels and demons, 5% of Atys shown, 99 layers of Prime Roots....

rothimar wrote: I suppose I don't understand why someone would stay with a game they are apparently so frustrated with. I would think such a player would find a game they are happy with instead.

Joyfully beating on Anissa's drum, let me quote Aristotle:
"The whole is more than the sum of its parts."

This is oh so true for Ryzom, it seems...
Everyone of us oldtimers does have his wishes, complaints and even frustrations - and sometimes we express them or take a break.
Still, Atys manages to keep us hooked, the good parts obviously outweighing the bad ones leaving hardly any comparable alternatives in sight. I'd even say that Atys influenced our perception of MMORPGs as if it were our first.
Can a greater compliment for a piece of entertainment software exist?

xolghost wrote:Joyfully beating on Anissa's drum, let me quote Aristotle:
"The whole is more than the sum of its parts."

And let me add a new entry in the "you know you play Ryzom too much" when you read Arispotle, think about the "shard" and the "street" and search the lore instead of thinking about that RL philosopher....

acridiel wrote:Well, who told you to click -> become neutral?
If you hadn´t done that your fame would still be 98 Zorai.
Happend to me too with 100 Matis and Karavan Fame, but I don´t blame Nevrax, I blame the idiot who told me to click and myself for beliveing him.

But Okay, it MUST be the Games fault for actually changing a thing, wait...
nothing has changed... Oh...it has... what now? *LOL*


Acridiel

oi who said the ghuissinator was blaming the zom....and i dunny become neutral i be still undetermined yet i got whackeded so i says they gaves up on meh.

anywho some yal be uber happy some yal be thinking some ya just be living oer leveling but i was sayings small stuff can keeps homins active.....