Ryzom

sprite wrote:Ah, in that case might I suggest you make sure your members refrain from offering your services when they are unavailable? I had quite got my hopes up... Perhaps I'll have better luck next time

I think Jyudas was talking about the whole "allegiance" thing. We owe allegiance to no civilisation or religion. Just mercenaries for hire.

So I express an opinion as to the events and repercusions as I see them I try to explain a little where thats comes from after a little light heat.

I get a little reasoned debate from DT but besides that I am a Hippy, moaning Troll.

Go Alliance....................

And good luck to anyone who doesnt see things their way.

vguerin wrote: [OOC]Throwing words like genocide out in a game where you cannot die "unless Jyudas rewrites lore on the draining nanoseed".[/OOC]

It actually IS part of the lore. Every Homin being has been 'gifted' with the Seed of Life since days long forgotten. The history of Atys is filled with references of Homins dieing, commoners, heroes and monarchs. And not solely due to old age. Leng Cheng-Ho, Matini Roqvini, Yasson, Jinovitch, Bremmen Dingle, Rigan Mac'Darrel, Cerakos II, Kalus Hym, ... to many to name them all but i'll end with Marshal Phanasa and Still Wyler since they are the most recent well-known ones.

Whoever started the idea that there is no death, or risk of dieing, on Atys obviously missed that.
And this Matis profession. Notice the excerpt on cemetary, crypts and Seed failings. Plus we have cemetaries all over Atys; Pyr even being build on top of the Cerakos II burial mound.

On genocide ... anyone remember the Momo's, the supossedly primitive ancestors of current Matis? Wether you like it or not, due to the horrible RL connotation to it, it is again part of the gameworld. (then again, I'm not saying genocide would fit in the context being used in this topic)


(not picking at you or singling you out vguerin, and certainly not meant as trollbait; this is just something that seems to get overlooked so often by many)

vguerin wrote:The prophecies...

The Karavan have told you all those DT, not Jena. We do not know what Jena or Ma-Duk think of this all as none of us have seen or talked to either (Notice I say Kami this or that in my posts, never Ma-Duk... ). We can go on and on about what the karavan say about her, but thats really just more of what the karavan say, not what Jena says.

Anywho, on the genocide thing. Yes, it is present in game (in more forms than one). There were the older races, such as the momos that someone else pointed out. There was also the old lands where we were almost wiped out. But more importantly, there is the fact that if all OPs are kara owned, some will leave game as even more end game content is removed. Add on top of that Spires and the Kami will just go away... either go neutral, kara or just leave game completely.
Consider it my Kami ways, but I believe in a equilibrium of the factions. Without the kami, there is no karavan, for you rally to them in support against the enemy. If life was all peaches and cream, why would you need a higher power to help you? ("help me? nah, I'm good thanks") The same applies to the Kami... Without the karavan, there would be nothing for the Kami to balance out against, and thus their focus of balance would start with eliminating themselves. Without evil, there can be no good. And without good, there can be no evil.

Anyway, without bringing game lore into it, in my mind its a matter of having fun in game. If all the OPs are kara controlled, I'll still attempt to gain some back, but the question is for how long? As the opposing side levels fast and gains more xp (more people, more crystals) how long will it take for me to become so tired of being nuked that I stop trying? Many agree that the OP fights are fun for everyone. They are a community event of sorts and usually mean a decent battle thats both long lasting yet fun. But as one side begins to win more and more, the chance of a fun fight for both sides becomes less.

Also, to clarify here, I'm not saying this because the Kami are losing (I got some stupid tell off an angry kara the other day saying the only reason I was saying all this was because the Kami were weak and losing). I would be saying the same thing if the situations were reversed. During my break I played a game called RF Online during which the race I played began to dominate the server. We had over 50% of the population (there were three races) and were dominating the pvp fights there. But it wasn't fun. It went from a close fight that was fun and I didn't mind losing to Easy Mode wins. So I said basically the same things there as I am here, just in a different situation. No fun if every fight is a guaranteed win

totnkopf wrote:Anyway, without bringing game lore into it, in my mind its a matter of having fun in game. If all the OPs are kara controlled, I'll still attempt to gain some back, but the question is for how long?

I feel ya man, but this is not something we as players can control... As far as the current standings I was not blowing smoke on how this happened. We were/are mainly pascifist's because we don't want the constant 2 AM roll calls. When struck we struck back, and started winning.

Should we give up hard earned OP's for the sake of fair gameplay ? We earned them by perseverance and solidarity. We did not always sit in this seat and we had some hards times back in the golden days of Infinity. We only have the tools they give us to play our game, and as much as I want to stay IC as much as possible at some point I cannot feel responsible for us currently leading. Our unnamed alliance has always been defensive in nature based around folks who believe in the same principles...

Maybe more OP's with different rulesets will help, but we didn't create this conundrum and we specifically have talked amongst allies about how this effects the game. Afterall that is the important thing. Morgaine, I like you, got my masters before XP Cats and they are not what is keeping me playing.

It will not and cannot be those of us playing the game that breaks it... It is the developers not providing the right, or enough tools for us to have and do more.

vguerin wrote:[OOC]"unless Jyudas rewrites lore on the draining nanoseed".[/OOC]

I didn't, it's part of the lore from the burial event stuff and so on.

totnkopf wrote:The Karavan have told you all those DT, not Jena. We do not know what Jena or Ma-Duk think of this all as none of us have seen or talked to either (Notice I say Kami this or that in my posts, never Ma-Duk... ).

From the Revelations of Ma-Duk (my emphasis)

Ma-Duk wrote:Revelation 1)
I am Ma-Duk, the Genitor, the Life Giver who created Atys, I am at one with the Kamis, who are part of me, and thus you must adore them as you will the Genitor.

So, you're not entirely correct there, your distinction is moot. (I'm sure since I'm not a kamist, neutral or tryker, I'll get complained at for expressing my opinions and trying to correct an innacuracy but hey... call me what you will)

During my break I played a game called RF Online during which the race I played began to dominate the server. We had over 50% of the population (there were three races) and were dominating the pvp fights there. But it wasn't fun. It went from a close fight that was fun and I didn't mind losing to Easy Mode wins. So I said basically the same things there as I am here, just in a different situation. No fun if every fight is a guaranteed win

If I remeber correctly, that situation was pretty much identical on most of the RFO servers (except one I think); one of the races was uniformly "ahead" of the other two. I may well be mistaken here, but I think thats about right. Now assuming for a moment that my memory hasn't failed me, that would point to a gameplay imbalance resulting in one side being "better" than the others at that time (directly after release). The important part of this is that this is clearly not the case in SoR, where any player can choose any side and even swap as they wish within the fame system constraints as well as the fact that the 3 servers show different outcomes.

That said, I do understand your point that winning all the time in easy fights is no fun; I even agree. However, saying that we shouldn't fight because we keep winning un-fun "easy wins" (I think thats what you're implying - if we didn't attack then we wouldn't get "easy wins", you wouldn't lose, and the kami side wouldn't be in the state that it is etc etc) is kind of self-defeating... if we didn't fight then we wouldn't even have the chance of a decent fight. (Ignoring for the moment that most of the OP battles recently have been kamist attacks). Now if it wasn't for all of the "guerilla tactics" that you enlightened us about, and people declaring on their allies' outposts to keep them safe, we might just have a few more "fun" OP battles

On the topic of "kara win = kami quit = boring game", I guess that's where we differ the most drastically - I have faith that, in designing a war that can be "won", the devs have some kind of ending in mind. Assuming that such an ending exists, we have no qualms about winning the war, and while people getting annoyed and quitting is obviously a bad thing for everyone, its sadly unavoidable if they can't handle losing. You'd be amazed at how often a similar conversation comes up amongst us...

/bow DT on a nice post

There is a difference between an offensive position and a defensive one. If the karavan had simply been playing a defensive game, then they would not own Kami lands such as the ones found in Zorai or Fyros lands. Striking into the other lands and taking OPs is not defensive, its offensive. Not complaining, its part of the game, just can't claim that the KA was all defensive.


As for OPs having an ending, I don't believe they do. Many of the game elements were designed for a game that has a much larger population. Spires for example would be great if the server had a huge population and the spires were constantly being contested. There would be some excitement as each day you tried to see if you could use your GoC TP. As it is, they'll probably change hands as much as OPs do... very rarely. I very much doubt that after making them an essential part of the game (as they were meant to be from the beginning) that they will then simply remove them (and crystal production along with them) when all of them have been taken over. If there were more people in game, the battles would be more frequent and the OPs would change hands on a regular basis. Only the truly organized guilds would be able to keep a constant hold on an OP.

Am I saying "give up your OPs?" no... but a defensive stace would be nice. Give the Kami side time to organize themselves and actually put up a decent fight (as many kara have pointed out, the kami are a bit unorganized at the moment). You earned them (cept one of the Void OPs) and I wouldn't have you just give them up, because as sprite pointed out, that'd remove any ability to have a decent fight. There is the possibility that the OPs do have an end game to them, but what if there isn't? Its a bit late to then say "oops"...
As for people quitting over losing, its not a matter of winning or losing, its a matter of fun. If people gind their levels up to 250, what is there for them to do? OPs are currently one of the few things other than grind another skill. Remove that and you remove end game content. No content = no fun. If its not fun, people don't play the game. As DT pointed out, I earned my master titles (well, some of em...) before cats were out. What did I do after hitting master? did a little dance, started a new one and posted of the forums about lack of content and asking when OPs were coming out...

DT- I agree with ya. But how often has Nevrax jumped up and given us a solution to a problem? Are we really going to wait a year or so for the tools to be made to fix it and then wait another 6 months while they attempt to create a fix? I love this game, but the devs run at a snails pace with anything they do. Had I thought it would be something that would have been a quick fix, I'd be appealing to Nevrax, not the players.

Sprite- regarding RFO, each server had a different race as its #1... spirit had Cora, Earth had bellato, etc. That wouldn't imply that one race had an advantage over the others, but rather, that each race was equal and that people were drawn to the winning side (much as it is now with SoR... the post of "hm.. The Kami are the underdogs" will stick with me for a while).

As for Ma-Duks prophecies...

...which were lost in the mists of time but have now been regained...

Who regained them? The Kami?

totnkopf wrote:
Sprite- regarding RFO, each server had a different race as its #1... spirit had Cora, Earth had bellato, etc. That wouldn't imply that one race had an advantage over the others, but rather, that each race was equal and that people were drawn to the winning side (much as it is now with SoR... the post of "hm.. The Kami are the underdogs" will stick with me for a while).

well yes and no, on the majority of the servers it was one race who was leading, bellato(guys that could use big mechs and that was the reason they were winngin)

If a guild can own 8 (it may be 10) outposts at one time It would seem to me that Nevrax has thought about faction/guild dominance. I take them at their word that this is a story based game and not a faction combat based game. Plots have conflict and resolutions. A plot line is not about keeping everything in a harmonic balance through 5 acts.

It is my belief that if the Kami had gotten enough mats to the temple in FH there would be two temples in the lake lands. I think that event had a purpose. I think they all do.

Those of us who made our choices on faction before OP's had no clue who would be the stronger side. None of us know who will be stronger 6 months from now. What I do know is the big swing in power did not occur from a battle. It came from a q250 outpost that was given to a Karavan guild by its Kami owner who actually booted all Kami defenders at the conflict.

I do not foresee us giving up anything, if you get it you will have earned it.

As a side note I am pretty sure I ran across something about a serious head trauma that prevented a respawn.

Pero