Totaly a no loot game :( = boaring for the non crafters

[chuangpo]

I don't particularly miss looting, as I have much more fun just playing and exploring and what not. But, maybe a solution here would be to somehow link hunting special mobs to Fame. The Kamis are not pleased when you kill all of thier rare animals off for mats or some such thing.

Now, of course, your always going to have those who don't give a bloody hell about fame, but if we link it to Civilization Fame, maybe people would be a little more hesitant to do it. Of course, it could just totally bork the fame system. Or maybe just have nature in general get pissed at you, so when you kill a rare mob, every animal from here to Zora will agro you all the way home. Kind of like "Princess Mononoke" or something. Just an idea I thought I'd throw into the mix, because I'd hate to see a lot of camping here... There's already fights over Hard Kipee in Zorai lands....

[bgrifter]

I've been a proponent of some sort of named item drops since the open beta. Would have to be VERY careful not to make crafting (and thus harvesting) obsolete considering those two classes make up at least half of your player base, but I think it's doable if handled properly.

The way I envisioned it working would be allow items with unique crystallized spells to be dropped. Might not have the best pure stats, but a specialized ability like say casts of snare, or a small self heal on a different timer than the normal one. If you want the best damage/speed weapons, or the highest bonuses on a mage staff, you'll need a crafted one. If you're looking for an interesting effect (have to be VERY careful to balance this), you'll want to hunt down certain named mobs.

Another interesting possibility would be having improved harvesting/crafting tools drop off higher level named mobs. (something i'd like to see whether they're crafted or not) Even if it's just something simple like a pick with +50hp, or a crafting tool that improves your chances for successes by 5%. By making something like that mob-dropped, you're encouraging Harvester/Crafters to get out a little and work with fighters/mages. Anything that encourages classes to work together towards a goal in a MMORPG is a good thing.

Anything they do would have to be handled with greatest of care not to unbalance the professions and make crafters (and thru that harvesters) obsolete, but I do think there's room for non-crafting drops off mobs in limited amounts.

[stygeon]

No one will ever be satisfied in these debates. Everyone wants it to be their way or it is not good enough. The hunters want the best equipment but they dont want the hassle of making it themselves. The harvesters/ crafters dont want the high end equipment drops so they have a purpose.

Decay rates are to high someone cry's ... if you would step back and look at the bigger picture you will see that yes armor gets beaten to hell. Almost all of the mats needed to make armor drop from mobs. That's right and in a good quantity also. If all you are doing is killing you are gathering the parts needed to replace that armor. The fact that everyone wants the uber is your own downfall and will lead to your own displeasure. The best equipment isnt what wins the fight. It is how you use what you have that does.

Flame all you want but if you cant kill without the uber you probably need to go pick up a console game or run over to another mmo. Stanza's, tactics, skill ... these are the tools for killing. Having nice equipment is nice but it does not make the end game.

[svayvti]

Good post Stygeon.

I've already seen a few guilds that cut out harvesters entirely and only hunt named mobs for excellent/supreme materials. IMO this can somewhat too easily be done, and we don't need more.

Loot on humanoid mobs isn't a bad idea, so long as the quality isn't too high. Maybe some of their endless supply of ammo from the ranged bandits?

[neiana]

The point I was trying to make here is this in swg they tried a not loot system and it failed and they reworked it some.

In horizions they tryed a no loot system and they are shutting down servers now.

In Nothing is like the thrill of and I quote a eq2 dev " we know you like to kill things and loot them" ehh

Some people like to do nothing but click and make things and thats fine and dandy,

!!! but some like to kill and loot !!! maby make armour craft only and some weapons and jewerly drop only or somthing so we can all enjoy the game more.

or make all crafted item better then looted ones but looted items be med qu so we dont have to craft if we dont want to etc

Horizons shards are NOT closing down because of no loot !! *laugh* If you think that is the cause then you should cease commenting until you have the time to learn the truth.

Same for SW:G. It's not that there was no loot that drove people away, it's the fact that the FIGHTING SYSTEM wasn't good.

NEITHER of these games were affected *greatly* (some yes, NOT much) by no-loot. They just were HORRIBLE in other areas.

- N

[jdiegel]

I would be cool with collectable items. Things with no real purpose other than the fact that they are incredibly rare.

[pr0ger]

Nice post, stygeon. Let's use it

No one will ever be satisfied in these debates. Everyone wants it to be their way or it is not good enough. The hunters want the best equipment but they dont want the hassle of making it themselves. The harvesters/ crafters dont want the high end equipment drops so they have a purpose.

With a "big picture" those behavior encourage trading between profession. Hunter/fighter gets mats, they sell them and buy good stuff from crafters. Thoses crafter are usually crafter/harvest who mainly dig dig dig

Okay, this is fine. About using mats from mobs to increase craft skill yes, kinda good idea. To get enough mats to gain 1 craft level you gain 3 to 6 fighting levels... (or if you keep killin' the same mobs, no level at all ;p )

The best equipment isnt what wins the fight. It is how you use what you have that does.

Good example is the increase damage stanzas

I got 1 problem. and 1 kinda big : range weapons. Making the weap is really easy, finding mats from hunt or harvest. But the ammos don't deal enough damage to balance the cost (you need 24 ammos q10 to kill one gingo, and with the sold drop you'll not be able to buy enough raw mats to craft even 12 ammos q10...)

[korin77]

I agree with some of the posters, at least some ammo should drop off the ranged humanoids that use range weapons. The rest should be in poor quality considering that in order to get it, you had to beat, shoot, bash, slash, and mutilate him to get it. Even a spell will burn, freeze, rot etc that armor even further. There is no way a mob would survive with his armor or weapon intact but the occasional piece of valuable jewelry would be nice for cash. Some interesting none game affecting loot would be nice too. Perhaps you can even salvage some pieces of someone's armor for mats using some kind of scalvage skills. Crafters are afraid that dropped loot will make them useless, it doesn't have to be that way. Armor and weapons could drop, but since its such a poor quality, if they want to wear it it will probably fall apart in a day.

[kisedd]

SWG had no loot of any kind. You had to have speical scout skills just to get the basic mats that you can loot in Ryzom. After a year you are starting to see some loot in SWG. Some has hurt the game like uber stun batons and other weapons. Other things, like house decorations I think add a fun dimention to looting. Overall, SWG has a pretty robust crafting system that is fun.

I think everyone wants to find cool things. But cool things don't have to be weapons and armors and the same things that crafters make. I do think it would be cool to find loot that enhances items that crafters make. Like a spell or other speical thing that you could add into a crafted item. Kinda like the Skill Tape idea SWG had. Just their stuff was so rare it was hardly worth fhinding cept for some major hardcore gamers.

[shrike]

...
With a "big picture" those behavior encourage trading between profession. Hunter/fighter gets mats, they sell them and buy good stuff from crafters. Thoses crafter are usually crafter/harvest who mainly dig dig dig

Okay, this is fine. About using mats from mobs to increase craft skill yes, kinda good idea. To get enough mats to gain 1 craft level you gain 3 to 6 fighting levels... (or if you keep killin' the same mobs, no level at all ;p )
...

There is a problem here. Basically that both hunters and foragers were meant to be suppliers for (high-qual) items. This can be seen when you compare the stats of foraged and quartered items - there is no quartered one which has the same boni/mali in the same stats as a foraged one.

Compare magic foci, for example. Yubo/Cypryni eyes have boni in elemental damage - there is no amber which boosts elemental spells (exept sha, but that one is completely useless since it also has a malus on elemental power, meaning it will deal about the same damage/time as a amber which average stats, but needs more sap). Or Torbak bones - those have a speed bonus for shafts. haven't found a bark with speed bonus so far. On the other hand, I haven't seen a quartered mat which has damage boni like oath bark or big shell.

In short, mob & foraged mat were originally meant to supplement each other. But since standart mobmats are limited to fine all the use of them is to be sold to NPCs or to crafters for making exp-trash-items.

Instead of using foraged only mats for my items I would MUCH RATHER use a combination of hunted & harvested mats. But I currently have magic on lvl 60 and forging on lvl 144. Magic on 60 because I don't see any reason to lvl it -because mobmats are unuseable for crafting.